sps help

[Big_Als_London]

[quote author=Big_Als_London link=topic=7663.msg79579#msg79579 date=1391532782]
The two things I suspect most would be the anthias or the blenny.

Its really wierd how fast they started to come back in the main sales tank.

It can very well be any fish or shrimp or crab or whatever nipping at them.... If you do your research you will soon find issues people have had with all different sorts of livestock.... To say anything is reef safe is never 100%....if they are causing that much damage then I'm sure you will see them attacking if you watch close enough....
[/quote]Well I am going to let them recover in my sales tank and in the mean time take out the Anthias as that was the last thing I put in and the problem started shortly after that.

 

[Duke]

I Doubt it's a fish, if it was there wouldn't be affected areas between the branches like in your 2nd photo, fish can't bite where they can't reach, u sure it's not that shrimp I saw in there?

 

[Big_Als_London]

I Doubt it's a fish, if it was there wouldn't be affected areas between the branches like in your 2nd photo, fish can't bite where they can't reach, u sure it's not that shrimp I saw in there?

I don't think its the coral banded shrimp doing it.  I left a small mille frag in the tank so I am going to watch it closely when I can.

 

[Big_Als_London]

This here looks like a bite mark and I recognize it to be from a blenny type fish or something with a big mouth

 

[Reef Hero]

Aaron,

Did the coral turn brown first before there were specific areas of the piece affected? Also, what other corals were within range of the affected ones....looks pretty severe IMO to be something just nipping at it from time to time....it does still look like a lot of acros I see that have suffered from insufficient lighting.... The coral turns brown and then random spots start to see tissue loss....if I had to point the finger it would be at the LEDs only because more evidence has shown these to be an issue than the mentioned livestock you have...

 

[curiousphil]

It's weird that it happened so suddenly just recently... and those photos make the corals look much worse than I remember seeing them on Sunday lol.  I'll get the par meter in at some point Aaron, hopefully tomorrow or Thurs. 

Not that I think the LEDs are necesarrily the cause of this downturn, given that the corals have been fine with lots of PE for months, but I will say though that every time I've seen those LEDs they seem quite dim.  What time do they peak at?  I know you've mentioned that they ramp up and down.  Do they peak at 100%?  What % levels do they run when not on peak?  We'll nail down some numbers when I get the chance to play around, but I suspect we'll want to turn them up... but again I'll restate that I really feel something else may be at play given the patchy tissue loss I see in those pics above.

 

[Big_Als_London]

Aaron,

Did the coral turn brown first before there were specific areas of the piece affected? Also, what other corals were within range of the affected ones....looks pretty severe IMO to be something just nipping at it from time to time....it does still look like a lot of acros I see that have suffered from insufficient lighting.... The coral turns brown and then random spots start to see tissue loss....if I had to point the finger it would be at the LEDs only because more evidence has shown these to be an issue than the mentioned livestock you have...

Not that I noticed.  The fire and Ice was looking better every day till about sunday when I came in and it had that tissue loss.  I noticed the sunset mille last thursday and pulled it first.

It has been very rapid.

 

[Reef Hero]

Random RTN. Has only ever been two things IME..... Either a predator or insufficient lighting....even predators nipping occasionally do not cause that bad of tissue loss.... The entire acro in your case appears to be stressed greatly..... I would put money on the lighting......


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[curiousphil]

Interesting info Ben, I had not heard of random RTN due to insufficient lighting!  Makes me wonder if that's the case with some of the items I have lost given the low PAR that I measured...

Guess I better get that meter over to you asap Aaron.

 

[jroovers]

Random RTN. Has only ever been two things IME..... Either a predator or insufficient lighting....even predators nipping occasionally do not cause that bad of tissue loss.... The entire acro in your case appears to be stressed greatly..... I would put money on the lighting......
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't think it is the lighting, and that doesn't look like RTN to me, the pattern is too irregular.  If it was the lighting causing RTN it would go up in smoke in a more linear, progressive fashion from tip to base or vice versa, wouldn't show segregated areas of tissue loss/trauma separated by what looks like healthy tissue.  Must be something chewing on it IMO.  Any further observations Aaron?

 

[Darryl_V]

My guess is something happened chemically or maybe stray electrical.    Perhaps someone dosed something or too much of something they shouldnt have.  Or maybe someone had something nasty on there hands and stuck them in there.  IF they were good and than boom they are like that something must have changed.

 

[Reef Hero]

[quote author=Reef Hero link=topic=7663.msg79632#msg79632 date=1391553000]
Random RTN. Has only ever been two things IME..... Either a predator or insufficient lighting....even predators nipping occasionally do not cause that bad of tissue loss.... The entire acro in your case appears to be stressed greatly..... I would put money on the lighting......
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't think it is the lighting, and that doesn't look like RTN to me, the pattern is too irregular.  If it was the lighting causing RTN it would go up in smoke in a more linear, progressive fashion from tip to base or vice versa, wouldn't show segregated areas of tissue loss/trauma separated by what looks like healthy tissue.  Must be something chewing on it IMO.  Any further observations Aaron?
[/quote]

It is this irregular tissue loss that I am referring to and I only called it rtn because Aaron said it happened very rapidly all of a sudden....plus to me the entire acro looked brown.... These observations are not typical of any fish or invert nipping on it if the coral is otherwise in good health..... Even when bugs attack it will usually cause rtn from the base up and does not generally turn the coral brown and cause irregular rtn....I have never run LEDs nor do I plan to but I have seen a lot of led lit tanks where this seems to be oh too familiar....however, I have placed many acros which require high light into too little and some will be almost dead in a week.... Doesn't take long because lighting is second most important to an acro besides water quality IMO. When I do this, the coral turns brown, pe gone almost, and then tissue loss begins in random and irregular spots (I.e middle of the acro)...upon returning the acro to better light it can take months to fully recover and may even become bleached but I have found this to be normal and usually will colour back up

 

[Darryl_V]

This here looks like a bite mark and I recognize it to be from a blenny type fish or something with a big mouth

This could also just be zoo-x bail out.  Ive seen this with caused by no pests or biting.

 

[Reef Hero]

My guess is something happened chemically or maybe stray electrical.    Perhaps someone dosed something or too much of something they shouldnt have.  Or maybe someone had something nasty on there hands and stuck them in there.  IF they were good and than boom they are like that something must have changed.

Again, and I'm sorry to slightly disagree with you Darryl, but water quality issues for me have always caused tissue loss from either base up or occasionally at the tips....

 

[Darryl_V]

We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

 

[jroovers]

We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?

 

[Darryl_V]

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79709#msg79709 date=1391611667]
We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?
[/quote]Stray electrical can cause it.  Makes the acros look like sandpaper was used on them too.  Other than that its usually just sickly corals that get those white blotches.  Not really sure what can cause it but I've seen it before.

 

[Reef Hero]

I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here.... I'm just providing my own thoughts from my own experience and research.... Tom Baker from chesterfield experienced the same thing and thought a bacterial infection like some others have also thought.... Again, he was all led and has now turned things around with MH. I think Aaron said they were in the LED lit tank for 3 months if I am reading the previous posts correctly.... Which is quite a while IMO.

 

[Big_Als_London]

[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7663.msg79711#msg79711 date=1391611932]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79709#msg79709 date=1391611667]
We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?
[/quote]Stray electrical can cause it.  Makes the acros look like sandpaper was used on them too.  Other than that its usually just sickly corals that get those white blotches.  Not really sure what can cause it but I've seen it before.
[/quote]hmmm stray electrical you say.  Now that you mention it I did get a little zap last week when I was on a metal ladder and had my hand in the tank. hmm I wonder what could be causing it although I did not feel the same this week when I did a water change.

I did put a very healthy mille frag in yesterday and today it has hardly any polyp extension. I now imagine it is either chemical or electrical causing it to happen that quickly.

It is an open topped tank so it is quite possible someone put something in the tank as well.

I just think its funny that the montis I have in the tank are showing no ill effects and either is the green a. florida or whatever it is.

 

[Reef Hero]

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79713#msg79713 date=1391612233]
[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7663.msg79711#msg79711 date=1391611932]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79709#msg79709 date=1391611667]
We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?
[/quote]Stray electrical can cause it.  Makes the acros look like sandpaper was used on them too.  Other than that its usually just sickly corals that get those white blotches.  Not really sure what can cause it but I've seen it before.
[/quote]hmmm stray electrical you say.  Now that you mention it I did get a little zap last week when I was on a metal ladder and had my hand in the tank. hmm I wonder what could be causing it although I did not feel the same this week when I did a water change.

I did put a very healthy mille frag in yesterday and today it has hardly any polyp extension. I now imagine it is either chemical or electrical causing it to happen that quickly.

It is an open topped tank so it is quite possible someone put something in the tank as well.

I just think its funny that the montis I have in the tank are showing no ill effects and either is the green a. florida or whatever it is.
[/quote]

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79713#msg79713 date=1391612233]
[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7663.msg79711#msg79711 date=1391611932]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79709#msg79709 date=1391611667]
We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?
[/quote]Stray electrical can cause it.  Makes the acros look like sandpaper was used on them too.  Other than that its usually just sickly corals that get those white blotches.  Not really sure what can cause it but I've seen it before.
[/quote]hmmm stray electrical you say.  Now that you mention it I did get a little zap last week when I was on a metal ladder and had my hand in the tank. hmm I wonder what could be causing it although I did not feel the same this week when I did a water change.

I did put a very healthy mille frag in yesterday and today it has hardly any polyp extension. I now imagine it is either chemical or electrical causing it to happen that quickly.

It is an open topped tank so it is quite possible someone put something in the tank as well.

I just think its funny that the montis I have in the tank are showing no ill effects and either is the green a. florida or whatever it is.
[/quote]

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79713#msg79713 date=1391612233]
[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7663.msg79711#msg79711 date=1391611932]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=7663.msg79709#msg79709 date=1391611667]
We all have different experiences Ben.  So are you saying its lighting?  If it happened with a day or two its very unlikely to be lighitng IMO.  I also dont think that is STN,RTN or any tissue loss.  IMO, like I mentioned, it looks like zoo-x bail out.

I agree with Darryl, lighting seems unlikely.  If they were healthy then all simultaneously turned on a dime that quickly, doesn't seem like light would be the issue, unless the lights were left on way too long or the intensity cranked up.  I have no experience with zoo bail out as Darryl calls it.  That said, it is interesting that the frags perked up immediately after being placed under T5s in a different tank.  What things can cause bail out Darryl, dosing issue like you mentioned or even stray current?
[/quote]Stray electrical can cause it.  Makes the acros look like sandpaper was used on them too.  Other than that its usually just sickly corals that get those white blotches.  Not really sure what can cause it but I've seen it before.
[/quote]hmmm stray electrical you say.  Now that you mention it I did get a little zap last week when I was on a metal ladder and had my hand in the tank. hmm I wonder what could be causing it although I did not feel the same this week when I did a water change.

I did put a very healthy mille frag in yesterday and today it has hardly any polyp extension. I now imagine it is either chemical or electrical causing it to happen that quickly.

It is an open topped tank so it is quite possible someone put something in the tank as well.

I just think its funny that the montis I have in the tank are showing no ill effects and either is the green a. florida or whatever it is.
[/quote]

I was under the impression that both tanks were the same water system?? Is this not the case?