True or False - POLL

[Neopimp]

HPower = volts x amps.  Power is watts. So the 50 w is a measure if the energy being fed/used by these devices. So yes both systems have 50w being inputted.

The heater takes the 50 and turns it to heat. 

The pump takes it and spins things and makes water move.  It is not 100% efficient and so it generates heat as a by product.  Does it turn the full 50w into heat? No it uses it to move water .  I t makes some noise and vibrates.  ...

Does all energy end up as heat is the question I have. If it does then great and everything in between doesn't matter but I still think the heater bucket will heat up faster.

Helping my work day pass faster

 

[Neopimp]

Watts can also be converted to horsepower

 

[Royal Aquariums]

Electrical apprenticeship all over again here  :

 

[dale]

same wattage= same heat.,., try holding a 50w pump with no caseing or fan and no water and see how hot it gets,.. if you run a pump out of water it will get too hot and melt the plastic.,.,  a 60w led puts out the same heat as a 60w light bulb, 60w pump, 60w stereo, 60w heater and so on, in an aquarium the pump dissipates heat quickly but stil lproduces the same heat., ., do you think a 5w heater would producs the same heat as a 5w korallia.,, yes it does.... ,, thanks for listening., ;D

 

[Neopimp]

  I want proof!

I know the laws and theories but I want proof

I will concede defeat here oop:

Ever enjoy just arguing agianst something

 

[dale]

to create the heat you need a load,,, a pump with no impeller creates no heat ., turning the impeller is the load., creating heat,., on a heater the coil resists the electricity and that is the load, creating heat., heat is a biproduct of using energy,., if you use 50w you get 50w of heat biproduct, warm blooded animals work on the same principle..,,.,

 

[dale]

  I want proof!

I know the laws and theories but I want proof

I will concede defeat here oop:

Ever enjoy just arguing agianst something

try taking the case off an old pump no matter the watts ,, plg it in OUT of water and see how hot it gets.., we could of tried it at ricks,. i had some old ones with me.,., very interesting subject  gets ya thinkin... lol

 

[Royal Aquariums]

A motor and a heater of same wattage would draw the same amperage but not produce the same amount of heat. A heater is a purely resistive load, converting current into heat. A motor is a inductive load converting current into motion, heat is a byproduct of any electrical load. This topic is getting "heated"  ;D

 

[Salty Cracker]

What weighs more, a pound of heaters, or a pound of pumps?  ;D

 

[yveterinarian]

What weighs more, a pound of heaters, or a pound of pumps?  ;D

Ha, Ha 

 

[Darryl_V]

I never thought we would get 4 pages of discussion out of this but it has been fun

I find it interesting that 80% have voted false.  Maybe we changed some minds or maybe we didn't.

 

[AdInfinitum]

[quote author=Duke link=topic=3304.msg27737#msg27737 date=1350220380]
I somewhat remember from physics class that it doesn't matter how its used.. a single watt generates the same heat regardless of its application, theres no if ands or buts about that.

exactly  50 watts is 50 watts,heat from return pumps  has always been a concern to many reefers
[/quote]

Remember that heat and temperature are measurements of the kinetic energy of molecules, stirring=heating effectively.

Re: The splitting hairs arguments...which I love...The EM output is a good point where relative absorption would vary with wavelengths, but remember that water is extraordinarily good at absorbing EM (why we have grow-op level lighting mounted over our tanks). 

A valid "real-world" point is that the pump by circulating the water more would increase the convective heat loss to the surrounding environment, more so than the heater's small thermo-convective currents.

However the one energy output from the pump that our tanks would very effectively transmit rather than absorb would be the sound generated by the pump.  Other than a small amount of inter-molecular friction as the sound waves travel through the water and interact with the glass (another excellent sound conductor) most of the energy that the powerhead wastes as sound would be absorbed by the stand, the carpet, your wife's ears as she tries to watch TV etc. heating the room rather than the water...

...but if we want to be that picky we could go and fake some cold-fusion...

This was a public school Science Fair project stirring vs heating...impresses people because it seems so counter-intuitive.

A "Reefer Oriented" example would be the Pistol shrimp that squirts a bit of water so rapidly that it cavitates and vaporizes into super-heated gas instantly. A tiny quantity of water "stirred" to 5000 degrees no heating elements required. 8) 

 

[Bill@IA]

I never thought we would get 4 pages of discussion out of this but it has been fun

Great Thread.

Thank you for that!

 

[Salty Cracker]

I'm not convinced, but I only read the 1st, 27th and lat post.  Was this about fish?

 

[Poseidon]

:?


and darryl... do you actually have an answer for this or was it just a question you thought of?

 

[Darryl_V]

A \"Reefer Oriented\" example would be the Pistol shrimp that squirts a bit of water so rapidly that it cavitates and vaporizes into super-heated gas instantly. A tiny quantity of water \"stirred\" to 5000 degrees no heating elements required. 8) 

A great example and you definitely added somethings to think about.  In a round about way you are saying true with some a small degree of variability on where that heat gets dissipated.

:?


and darryl... do you actually have an answer for this or was it just a question you thought of?

If you read the whole thread you will see it's been answered multiple times by a few different people......although it seems others still choose to disagree. 

Really the ultimate answer is just that a watt is a watt....equal energy, equal heat created.  That is all this thread was started to show as some how it doesn't seem right that 50w pump would create as much heat as a 50w heater.  What comes after that is the splitting of hairs on how that heat is dissipated.  In a vaccum it would be the exact same......but in an aquarium it may be ever so slightly different.    For all intents and purposes its going to be utterly the same in an aquarium with a submerged pump and heater....especially if they are running at the same time in the same tank, although there could be a minute difference with EM and other energy Im not so familiar with but again splitting hairs.

So after this dissucussion, here is the next question.  What creates more heat, 250w of LED or 250w of MH? 

 

[Neopimp]

LEDs run cooler and emit way more em....

 

[TORX]

What creates more heat, 250w of LED or 250w of MH???

Yes, they run cooler...think of quantity... you would need a hell of a lot of LEDs to run at 250w and only 1 MH bulb to hit that. Plus a lot of heat is dispersed through the heat sink and drivers with LEDs. Again, in total, probably pretty close to the same.

 

[Darryl_V]

I will just go back to my previous statement

Really the ultimate answer is just that a watt is a watt....equal energy, equal heat created

The LED will emit less heat into the tank but again overall the heat created is the same.  It seems like the MH would create more heat but its like saying what creates more heat, 3 x 50w heaters or a 150w heater?

The thing with LED is that the heat created is dissipated over a greater area and more heat is disspated UP and OUT (heat sink, fans) vs. the MH creating heat in a small area (less dissipation) and down.

Also people are thinking its creates less heat because we can use less energy when comparing LED to MH due to the efficiency of LED.  But my question was watt vs watt.  Its really not that tricky.

 

[Neopimp]

I'm confused ;D