True or False - POLL

[Bill@IA]

[quote author=Bill@IA link=topic=3304.msg27720#msg27720 date=1350179307]


If you hold the pump in your left hand and the heater in your right hand.........and I plug them in to the electrical outlet which one will you drop first??

If the surface areas are equal.....50watts in one hand is the same as 50watts in the other.
[/quote]

A nice mind tickler.

 

[Victoss]

Yes some heat from the heater can be transferred too and the heater does cause a little water movement as well but a pump creates large amounts of water movement which increases the amount of heat transfer. Its why we put fans in our computers 

 

[Darryl_V]

We are being a little nit picky because we are just showing how energy is dissipated as heat.....but how about this.  If they are both in the tank at the same time they both would benefit from the waters surface movement (which should increase heat dissipation to the air).  But if they are in separately than the pump would create a tiny bit less heat due to the increase heat dissipation at the surface?  yes, no?

 

[Victoss]

I would agree with you there, but that means when you add a pump you can't expect 'double' the heat, but they would be equal in the tank. Just to through in a curve ball each of the devices is also creating EM radiation which can leave the tank. So the pump and heater may not be equal in these parts but I could not tell you which would emit more, the coil from the heater or the motor from the pump. I don't think the amount in heat is that much of a difference any ways but just throwing in some theory to play with :.

 

[teebone110]

maybe its safe to say both would use 50watts of energy, however the 50w heater will produce more heat.

 

[Darryl_V]

maybe its safe to say both would use 50watts of energy, however the 50w heater will produce more heat.

neither of us have fully said that, no.  We are just being nit picky with some of the finer details.

Basically it can be the same, for all intents and purposes, but there may also be subtle differences under certain circumstances.

 

[unibob]

Very interesting indeed. Definitely pretty tough to test, because good luck putting a 50w pump in a container of water that a 50w heater would even come close to changing water temp, the outside temp would have more of a factor then a 50w heater.

But oh wait I found a 50w pump :?

 

[Neopimp]

I don't really buy it.  I can see the argument and in the long run maybe all energy ends up as heat.  But the power head does work to move the water around,  sound, friction.  I think I feel an experiment coming on

 

[spyd]

Holding a 50w heater and a 50w powerhead would be completely different without a doubt. It's the materials used that make all the difference in the heat be dissipated. The heater uses metal which heats easily and glass which also heats easily. A powerhead, however, uses plastic which act more like a heat sink and dissipates the heat over the entire unit. By the time the heat from the powerhead makes contact with the water, there is very minimal heat transfer by then. If you want a prime example, run a powerhead out of the water for a while. I guarantee you it overheats and the motor block malfunctions. Same amount of energy used, however, both are going through different materials. One was designed specifically to expell heat quickly where the other is designed to move water and have the heat created disspate throughout the body of the unit and avoid rapid heat emissions.

This could be proven in an experiment, however, it would not be so easy to setup. You could have a bucket with a heater and a bucket with a powerhead. However, the powerhead causes the water to circulate and would produce more contact with the outside air, so you wouldnt be able to measure the amount of heat as easily.

 

[unibob]

A frag tank myth busters?

 

[Neopimp]

2 buckets 2 small identical power heads.  One heater cut back to run the same wattage as a 3rd powerhead.  Lids.

Small ph keep water circulating in both pails.  Add heater to one matching powerhead to other.  Seal them up.  I bet you will see the heater bucket warm up .


it would be good enough to say, that pretty close or this is wrong.

Either way both things are doing work with the energy they just use it differently

 

[Duke]

I somewhat remember from physics class that it doesn't matter how its used.. a single watt generates the same heat regardless of its application, theres no if ands or buts about that.

 

[pulpfiction1]

I somewhat remember from physics class that it doesn't matter how its used.. a single watt generates the same heat regardless of its application, theres no if ands or buts about that.

exactly  50 watts is 50 watts,heat from return pumps  has always been a concern to many reefers

 

[Darryl_V]

I somewhat remember from physics class that it doesn't matter how its used.. a single watt generates the same heat regardless of its application, theres no if ands or buts about that.

exactly the point.

We have had a lot of back and forth on how that heat is dissipated but in a closed environment a watt is a watt and they generate the same amount of heat.

 

[Neopimp]

On sure we can piece together enough equipment at the frag swap this afternoon to test it out and all I got buckets in the back of my car.

 

[unibob]

It's all going to come down to the efficiency of both items, but in a perfect world I guess a watt is a watt.

 

[Duke]

It has nothing at all to do with efficiency. How can one be more efficient than the other if there both 50 watts?

 

[xxmurrxx]

It has nothing at all to do with efficiency. How can one be more efficient than the other if there both 50 watts?

The heater could more efficiently produce heat because it's designed to do so.

 

[Duke]

[quote author=Duke link=topic=3304.msg27747#msg27747 date=1350225960]
It has nothing at all to do with efficiency. How can one be more efficient than the other if there both 50 watts?

The heater could more efficiently produce heat because it's designed to do so.
[/quote]

You would think so... But that's not true

 

[Darryl_V]

[quote author=xxmurrxx link=topic=3304.msg27748#msg27748 date=1350226550]
[quote author=Duke link=topic=3304.msg27747#msg27747 date=1350225960]
It has nothing at all to do with efficiency. How can one be more efficient than the other if there both 50 watts?

The heater could more efficiently produce heat because it's designed to do so.
[/quote]

You would think so... But that's not true
[/quote]right on Duke.  Efficiency is how well energy is transfered.  A 60w incandescent bulb is not very efficient at producing light energy compared to LED.

Maybe it will help to know that watts can directly be converted to btu's.  1btu = .293 watt-hours.  So if they can directly be converted....consider them the same.