Two DC12000 connected in series for a basement sump

[Boga]

Currently I am running a Mag 18 for return from basement to DT on the main floor. I need more. Doing research for better pumps, I saw a good jump in price for good pumps. Also the power consumption is getting to the roof.

I have this "crazy" idea to put two DC-12000 in series. It will increase the head height and also the flow at output. Overall the price is decent (including shipping from fishstreet.com), consumption appears to be max 2x85W=170W at full power. They have the flow adjustable, so I can dial it back if needed. Maybe I can even hope to run other consumers off them.

Any pros/cons you foresee?

 

[KBennett]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

I'd be worried about starving the second one if they aren't set up the same.  I don't know if that would hurt it though.

 

[Boga]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

I'd be worried about starving the second one if they aren't set up the same.  I don't know if that would hurt it though.

Agreed. It could cause issues if that happens. Wondering if they can be run from the same controller.

Another concern is that they both need to be in water, probably for cooling reasons.

 

[Duke]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

They don't need to be in the water actually

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

is this one a bigger one ?...http://www.reefoctopus.com/product_detail.aspx?ProductsCateID=254&CateID=35&CurrCateID=253

 

[Boga]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

is this one a bigger one ?...http://www.reefoctopus.com/product_detail.aspx?ProductsCateID=254&CateID=35&CurrCateID=253

Unfortunately ... no. Thanks.

 

[Duke]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

is this one a bigger one ?...http://www.reefoctopus.com/product_detail.aspx?ProductsCateID=254&CateID=35&CurrCateID=253

That is the smallest one

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

ive seen a picture of someones basement setup.  where they are using 2 pumps.  and 2 sumps.    the last pump to the display is mounted up high.  like at the ceiling of the basement.  and gets fulled. from the flloor of basement tank  amd the top tank fulls the display in the living room.  and only one drain to the floor of basement tank ..

 

[Boga]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

ive seen a picture of someones basement setup.  where they are using 2 pumps.  and 2 sumps.    the last pump to the display is mounted up high.  like at the ceiling of the basement.  and gets fulled. from the flloor of basement tank  amd the top tank fulls the display in the living room.  and only one drain to the floor of basement tank ..

This would be an option to analyze.  I have enough room and the intermediate sump can be only five or ten gallons. Thanks again.

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[Boga]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

They don't need to be in the water actually

I thought that I saw something in their manual and also in a YouTube video. I will check again.

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[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

ive seen a picture of someones basement setup.  where they are using 2 pumps.  and 2 sumps.    the last pump to the display is mounted up high.  like at the ceiling of the basement.  and gets fulled. from the flloor of basement tank  amd the top tank fulls the display in the living room.  and only one drain to the floor of basement tank ..the skimmer and everything is in the floor beasemnt tank  the upper sump with last pimp is just a bare tank with the bulkhead above water level.  so it wont drain all back if the lower pump dies

 

[Pistol]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

Currently I am running a Mag 18 for return from basement to DT on the main floor. I need more. Doing research for better pumps, I saw a good jump in price for good pumps. Also the power consumption is getting to the roof.

I have this \"crazy\" idea to put two DC-12000 in series. It will increase the head height and also the flow at output. Overall the price is decent (including shipping from fishstreet.com), consumption appears to be max 2x85W=170W at full power. They have the flow adjustable, so I can dial it back if needed. Maybe I can even hope to run other consumers off them.

Any pros/cons you foresee?

I don't think it would be a problem as long as both pumps are running @ the same speed, I've seen high flow high pressure irrigation pumps where they have 4, 5, and 6 impellers on a single shaft driven with one motor, 2 smaller motors would just be a little less efficient than 1 larger motor.

 

[pulpfiction1]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

im curious why you wouldnt just grab a good pressure rated external pump,one that would do the job your trying to accomplish,mag 18 or the dc  pumps are not pressure rated

 

[davesolo29]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

I have one for sale that will do what you are looking for.

 

[Duke]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

the dc-12000 is rated for 4.8m head height... and flows more than 2x as much as the red dragon pump

 

[AdInfinitum]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

Running centrifugal pumps in series is done at times in industry.  In theory it would double the head at a given flow rate but in actual practice the system curve ends up as about a 60% gain in head with two identical pumps.

...but Pulp has the right answer....a pressure rated pump will provide the most efficiency in a high head application.  Remember that a pumps power usage is not fixed, but is a curve as well.  Just because a pump has a higher max power rating does not mean that it will be using more power in any given application.

 

[Boga]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

im curious why you wouldnt just grab a good pressure rated external pump,one that would do the job your trying to accomplish,mag 18 or the dc  pumps are not pressure rated

I am trying to see if this solution is feasible from a cost perspective (both initial investment and long run use) and if it would deliver the right amount of flow for my needs. I would prefer a pump in sump. Heating and noise are not issues for me at the moment.

I've done a short analysis with couple other pumps, using the best available information.

Theoretical flow at 12ft height:
Ivaki 70RT:          1260 GPH
Reeflo barracuda: 2700 GPH
Mag 18 (current): 750 GPH (not enough)
DC-12000:          800 GPH (not enough)
Two DC-12000:  1280 GPH (estimation). Flow should be enough for now, but there is not much reserve.


Purchase cost including shipping:
Ivaki 70RT:          $487
Reeflo barracuda: $520
Mag 18 (current): $250
DC-12000:          $150
Two DC-12000:    $300

Average consumption:
Ivaki 70RT:          300W
Reeflo barracuda: 250W
Mag 18 (current): 145W
DC-12000:            85W
Two DC-12000:    170W

Approximate running cost for a five-year period @ 10c/KW:
Ivaki 70RT:          $1315
Reeflo barracuda: $1095
Mag 18 (current): $635
DC-12000:          $372
Two DC-12000:    $744

I don't have any information about maintenance, like replacement O-rings, impellers, etc.

 

[sunnykita]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

this is an interesting topic to me, as I would like to switch my sump to the basement eventually. thanks for sharing the info, I'll be following closely

 

[pulpfiction1]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

I would think there would be added risk with the two pumps. Just more chance of failure. I have an 1100 gph Little Giant.
In my opinion these pumps have the best pressure and the highest head rating . This pump will easily still achieve 800 gallons per hour at 15 feet imo

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[AdInfinitum]

Re: Two DC12000 connectecd in series for a basement sump

You may want to revisit the math on your cost calculations...I believe that 300 watts 24/7 10c/kw comes to around $265 ball park and the iwaki would not be drawing any where near that in actual practice.  My Blueline HD 70 (virtually the same pump) will pull about 150-180 watts in the application you used as an example.  The need to change seals etc. is a fair point but submersibles wear too, you just don't notice the gradual loss of efficiency.

I am not familiar with the DC pump in question, but in general DC pumps are used in applications when variable speed control, frequent start/stops and/or quiet operation are required.  Generally AC induction motors are far more efficient than DC, other than perhaps some of the newest high end brushless DC motors.  (I'm sure that we have some electricians here that might know better than me)

...but if piggy-backing multiple low pressure high volume pumps was the way to go, we would be doing it in industry and no one would go to the expense of designing and building high pressure pumps.

BTW Parksy had a panworld for sale recently...not sure of the size...