Some of my acro frag tips white

[DerekL]

I have found some of my acro tip white. Not new growth I know that. They are encrusting well they have not been moved so my lights aren't roasting them. I read high alk can burn acro tips but my alk is steady at 8.6. My pH is 8.3 salinity is always 1.026 phosphates are undetectable with salifert test kit and nitrates are 5ppm just added bio pellets Saturday to hopefully get nitrates down. This was happening before adding bio pellets. I run hcgfo and carbon in a BRS dual reactor as well. Trying to give all variables in order to get proper advice. About a week ago I had come home from work to find my tank 84.3 and my heater was set to 79 yet the light was on so I took that heater out and went got a eheim jäger heater and my tank temp has been that same at 80.6 since. Now could the white tips be from the temperature fluctuation? And if so will they recover? 

 

[jroovers]

Could be related to the temp swing Derek, hopefully your new frags didn't get burnt tips also.  If you are running biopellets, most will tell you to keep your alk between 7 and 8 dkh - some people have encountered issues with burnt tips and base recession with dkh's above 8.  Did you add anything else recently as well?  I did a cyano treatment once in the past and it greatly cleared up the water to the point where I burnt some tips.  Also, changing over to new lighting all at once could do it without adjusting your photoperiod temporarily.  Your corals should recover but I would probably trim the tips with bone cutters to remove the dead tissue, hopefully the tips will just start growing again. 

 

[DerekL]

Thank you Jordan nothing changed but bio pellets added. I will adjust alk and keep around 8. Also new frags have not been affected and are doing good. The ones affected have been in my tank for awhile now my joe the coral frag and my ultimate bonsai. And both have great polyp extention still just a couple tips are white and you can tell the difference between new growth. As for lighting the Orphek Atlantik has been the sole lighting source since setting up this tank so nothing changed except the bio pellets I just started on Saturday. I guess I can consider myself lucky and that I noticed a faulty heater before loosing my whole tank.

 

[jroovers]

Thank you Jordan nothing changed but bio pellets added. I will adjust alk and keep around 8. Also new frags have not been affected and are doing good. The ones affected have been in my tank for awhile now my joe the coral frag and my ultimate bonsai. And both have great polyp extention still just a couple tips are white and you can tell the difference between new growth. As for lighting the Orphek Atlantik has been the sole lighting source since setting up this tank so nothing changed except the bio pellets I just started on Saturday. I guess I can consider myself lucky and that I noticed a faulty heater before loosing my whole tank.

That is a good sign, maybe it was just the temp then and things have stabilized.  Strong direct flow can do what you've described as well - cause some tissue to die that is, but usually that is pretty evident as to the cause when it happens.

 

[DerekL]

For flow I have an MP40 on the left side of tank and an MP 10 on the right side. Again these frags have been in the same spot so i don't think that after a few months they would now show signs of not liking the flow. They are at least a 1 1/2' from the MP10 and 2 feet from the MP 40. I may try changing up from I believe it is reef crest nutrient export mode I run them in to a short pulse that will create a wave.

 

[Salty Cracker]

85 deg (if a fairly sudden swing, and not incremental over say a month) could definitely shock a system.  I've left the doser on a couple of times lately and added a fair bit of alk and it didn't affect anything, but who knows. 

Is there polyps in the white tips?

 

[theyangman]

I am also noticing white tips on my green slimer frag.

It is a new frag I introduced (my only sps at this time) about a week or two old at this point. It was a healthy sized frag, about 3 inches with multiple branches. Coloration on the frag has not changed, but today I noticed whiter tips, and some brown algae growing on said tips.

Alk, is 7.7
mag 1325
cal 440-450 (always hard to tell)

not dosing, but weekly water changes only. Parameters don't seem to be fluctuating. Salinity is bang on and temp is at 79.

 

[Duke]

if there is brown algae growing on the tips they are dead.. if its new growth they will slowly fade to white but like salty said, they will still have nice polyp extension. honestly somethings going on with your parameters tony, there must be.. i know you have a hanna phosphorus checker, but what are you checking nitrates with if you mind me asking?

 

[reeffreak]

Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

 

[theyangman]

Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

Temp swings are that bad eh?

if there is brown algae growing on the tips they are dead.. if its new growth they will slowly fade to white but like salty said, they will still have nice polyp extension. honestly somethings going on with your parameters tony, there must be.. i know you have a hanna phosphorus checker, but what are you checking nitrates with if you mind me asking?

I use salifert for nitrates. Testing always shows somewhere in the >5 ppm range. Seems acceptable no? Yes, ideally lower the better, but even with pellets, I cannot get it to zero. Same goes with phosphates. My phosphates are reading usually 0.03-0.08 ppm.

Perhaps I need to have one of you guys come over with your testing kits and run a full gamut of tests on my tank with your kits and see where I could be running into issues. I have no idea at this point. I will cut the dead tips off carefully tonight and go from there.

 

[Duke]

might be a good idea, i dont have any good test kits myself but im sure someone in london can help you out. i dont know what to tell you tony, u need someone like jroovers or glen to swing by and see what their thoughts are on what you should try.

 

[jroovers]

Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

Unless your coral is already stressed, I wouldn't expect this type of swing to be an issue.  My temp fluctuates consistently between 77 and 80 degrees, but generally it is typically between 78 and 79.  After a water change for example, my temp may drop 2 to 3 degrees celcius depending on how cold the NSW is, but has never been a problem.  If you go from 78 to 83 or higher however, I might start to get nervous. 

 

[reeffreak]

Sorry I should have elaborated. Having a temp swing like that, fluctuating daily will have effects. Maybe not is it happens once, but on a daily occurrence it would IMO

 

[theyangman]

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=7052.msg71471#msg71471 date=1386088615]
Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

Unless your coral is already stressed, I wouldn't expect this type of swing to be an issue.  My temp fluctuates consistently between 77 and 80 degrees, but generally it is typically between 78 and 79.  After a water change for example, my temp may drop 2 to 3 degrees celcius depending on how cold the NSW is, but has never been a problem.  If you go from 78 to 83 or higher however, I might start to get nervous. 
[/quote]

Open invitation to either Glen or Jordan then. PM me the beer of choice and I will have it nice and cold for when you arrive. One of you guys has to do it now too, cause Duke said so and pre-emptively volunteered you guys to help me.

 

[jroovers]

Sorry I should have elaborated. Having a temp swing like that, fluctuating daily will have effects. Maybe not is it happens once, but on a daily occurrence it would IMO

Maybe, if the corals are already stressed, this could be an issue.  If the coral is healthy, a day to day temp swing of 3 degrees Celcius shouldn't be an issue, but more than that may be playing with fire.  I've never had temp issues myself, so I can't tell you what the upper threshold is based on experience.  After getting my reefkeeper with temp probe I have watched my temperature out of curiosity more than anything, and it fluctuates pretty consistently by up to two degrees, and sometimes three, day to day depending on the ambient temperature of the room and house more than anything.  I think corals in the wild are pretty adept at temporarily dealing with adverse conditions - such as sudden influxes of cold water based on currents/wave action, or temporary exposure to air with raging surf and changing tides.  Really, the coral should be able to cope with it (over the short term).  This is only based on my experience, Reeffreak your system is different than mine and each system has its own nuances. 

 

[jroovers]

[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7052.msg71477#msg71477 date=1386092641]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=7052.msg71471#msg71471 date=1386088615]
Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

Unless your coral is already stressed, I wouldn't expect this type of swing to be an issue.  My temp fluctuates consistently between 77 and 80 degrees, but generally it is typically between 78 and 79.  After a water change for example, my temp may drop 2 to 3 degrees celcius depending on how cold the NSW is, but has never been a problem.  If you go from 78 to 83 or higher however, I might start to get nervous. 
[/quote]

Open invitation to either Glen or Jordan then. PM me the beer of choice and I will have it nice and cold for when you arrive. One of you guys has to do it now too, cause Duke said so and pre-emptively volunteered you guys to help me.


[/quote]

I can make some time to come by at some point over the next couple of weeks.  Not sure there is anything obvious though based on what you have posted, it may be a time thing more than anything. 

 

[theyangman]

[quote author=theyangman link=topic=7052.msg71479#msg71479 date=1386092773]
[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7052.msg71477#msg71477 date=1386092641]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=7052.msg71471#msg71471 date=1386088615]
Temperature swings is another thing to watch for .. Going from 78-81 could cause this also. Consistent, always has to be consists with sps any changes, major or minor could have ill effects

Unless your coral is already stressed, I wouldn't expect this type of swing to be an issue.  My temp fluctuates consistently between 77 and 80 degrees, but generally it is typically between 78 and 79.  After a water change for example, my temp may drop 2 to 3 degrees celcius depending on how cold the NSW is, but has never been a problem.  If you go from 78 to 83 or higher however, I might start to get nervous. 
[/quote]

Open invitation to either Glen or Jordan then. PM me the beer of choice and I will have it nice and cold for when you arrive. One of you guys has to do it now too, cause Duke said so and pre-emptively volunteered you guys to help me.


[/quote]

I can make some time to come by at some point over the next couple of weeks.  Not sure there is anything obvious though based on what you have posted, it may be a time thing more than anything. 
[/quote]

Here is the thing though, if I can eliminate water being the issue, at least I can rest assured I am on the right path. However if by chance I am doing something wrong in my testing methods, it would be best to figure that out sooner than later.

Ideally I can start knocking things off my list one at a time to figure out where my issue lies and begin to correct it asap. Getting a second set of hands and eyes on my tank can also always be an easy way for a less experienced reefer to gain some insight on some potential issues.

 

[jroovers]

Off topic, Derek hopefully you don't mind, but SPS related I guess, Tony, are you still running all LEDs?  If so, Glen may be of more help, he has a nice all LED reef with beautiful success.  That said, if all LED still, my first recommendation to you would be to swap out those LEDS (or some of them at least) and run some T5s.  Not that it can't be done with LEDS, but I think you might get off and running on the right foot with T5s.  I would put up a friendly wager that you would see more success.  If I recall correctly, Glen said that his SPS were not too fond of the LEDs initially, but once acclimated, they have done well.  If you are putting in corals into your system that have been grown or kept under primarily MHs or T5s, with some supplemental LED, it may be a shock to the coral to go under all LEDs.  If your tank is new, any problems with water chemistry would compound this issue.  Given that your water parameters are under check by the looks of it, and probably aren't the cause at this point, I really think you need to address your lighting. 

 

[theyangman]

I have long wondered this too. Perhaps I should sell off my LED fixtures....

 

[BIGSHOW]

Off topic, Derek hopefully you don't mind, but SPS related I guess, Tony, are you still running all LEDs?  If so, Glen may be of more help, he has a nice all LED reef with beautiful success.  That said, if all LED still, my first recommendation to you would be to swap out those LEDS (or some of them at least) and run some T5s.  Not that it can't be done with LEDS, but I think you might get off and running on the right foot with T5s.  I would put up a friendly wager that you would see more success.  If I recall correctly, Glen said that his SPS were not too fond of the LEDs initially, but once acclimated, they have done well.  If you are putting in corals into your system that have been grown or kept under primarily MHs or T5s, with some supplemental LED, it may be a shock to the coral to go under all LEDs.  If your tank is new, any problems with water chemistry would compound this issue.  Given that your water parameters are under check by the looks of it, and probably aren't the cause at this point, I really think you need to address your lighting. 

This is a very good point and I think it has been overlooked.  IME some SPS are not to happy to go from T5 to LED or LED to T5.  Almost everyone of my Acros that I put from one of my T5 systems to one of my LED lit tanks turned brown.  I have a PAR meter and I was matching them up pretty good, so to me, its a spectrum issue or something else.  I have heard that the colour will come back on the SPS, but I didn't have the patience to see how long it would take.  Both LED and T5 setups are on the same system so it was not a water issue, it was the lights.

I am not saying all SPS will do this, but the majority of the ones I tried did go brown.