Macro Vs Bio Balls

[pulpfiction1]

i dont personally believe rock in the sump makes no difference as opposed to the display except for the fact your increasing the over all amount of rock

 

[scubasteve]

I

Like I said many ways to run a system - it really comes down to what kind of environment / system you want in the end. A seahorse tank, fowlr, sps, softy or mixed reef will all handle nutrients levels differently. In most cases (from reading and studies) most mixed reef,sps reefers and lps grow out of bio-balls for various reasons. I personally would not suggest bio-balls for someone starting up (as the OP asked)
I also gave reasons what happens to fuges over time and the science behind it (also personal experience)

"Cons to biological filtration are rarely mentioned. The first downside is that biological filtration never removes nutrients from the aquarium. Therefore as long as you are feeding your fish and your corals you will be increasing the nutrient load of the aquarium. This can be related to the golden rule of gardening “put in what you take out, take out what you put in”. If you are not harvesting your aquarium you are accumulating matter in the system."

The benefit behind rock in a sump with bio-pellets is stability and long term success.

My system has gone through an evolution (like most) some good some bad. I had a fairly large refug (35 gal) and it did help me stabilize my system, unfortunately with increased bio-load and maturity it did become an issue. That being said in the future I plan on setting up a display refuge and plumbing it into my total water volume , i will have to lower the the amount of bio-pellets tho.

Great discussion

Then how come as my bioload increased and reef matured well over a year things did much better after switching to trickle with bio balls deep sandbed and packed full of algae with proper lighting not to mention only running carbon in reactor doing wc every 3 weeks no algae issues and great params plus i dont even use ro just tap treated with prime which should make buildup even worse... as long as you rinse bio balls in saltwater there is no dieoff and crud is removed?????? And my sump on my 125 was 45 gal max and only about 20 gal worth with deep sand bed and 3 kinds of macro i think even randy farley and others of same status have writeups about how many people miss the benefit of bio filtration through deep sand beds and fuges for nutrient export many of them very recent within a year the key to keeping deep sandbeds and fug's clean is striving for bio diversity and having all the right critters for the right jobs and if i can get less maintenance and good params thatway on a sps dominant with zoos then why would i waste 100's on equipment and constantly buying different media and dosing different things when i can spend it on more coral and trace elements

 

[Reef Hero]

Wouldn't a tank without rock, live or dry, be a little flat and uninteresting?

I guess it's up to you what you want your tank to look like. Having a tank full of amazing corals growing on eggcrate is more appealing to me than a pile of rocks.... I never suggested anything as far as appearance goes, I simply said that LiveRock is no longer required.


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[pulpfiction1]

I guess it's up to you what you want your tank to look like. Having a tank full of amazing corals growing on eggcrate is more appealing to me than a pile of rocks.... I never suggested anything as far as appearance goes, I simply said that LiveRock is no longer required.


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horse shit

 

[Reef Hero]

Horseshit to what statement?


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[pulpfiction1]

live rock not needed

 

[scubasteve]

i wanna see pics of a heavily stocked frag tank with nothing but coral and eggcrate followed by the super overkill equipment list and massive maintenance and dosing routine to keep everything stable.... plus with all the surfaces exposed to oxygen where would the anaerobic bacteria live that environment only support aerobic bacteria which would cause nitrates to rise even faster requiring even more dosing..... sounds like somebody is rich to do that

 

[Reef Hero]

Guys it's true.... Not only is LiveRock not needed but no fish either. This is the full zeo method. There is a member on this forum with the username "CUNAReefer and he has an amazing tank full of coral without any LiveRock and only 1 fish.....


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[pulpfiction1]

while its true corals produce little waste,they do produce some.a zeo system should handle it yes,not the cheapest route,add fish and its a different ball game
and on another note,dont be over feeding those corals or your gonna need a bigger zeo setup
$$$

 

[CUNAReefer]

Hey Reefers,

It is true that you can keep a tank without sand and LR driven entirely with zeo. I went without sand or rock for sometime, but eventually added for my fish to sleep peacefully at night. There was no rock or sand in the sump. Just a zeo reactor and Reef Octopus 3000-Int skimmer. At the time I started the tank, I already had 13 years of reefing experience. I would never recommend this approach to a new hobbyist.

This is the oldest photo I have in my photobucket account. This is my tank after I added a piece of rock for the fish to sleep. The plastic container with sand is for the Melanarus to sleep at night. Its his sand bed

Ok. Chimed in for my buddy, Ben... Now I have to get back to work! It's quarter end reporting time and I have some numbers to crunch. If you have any questions I will try to pop back on the board over the weekend.

James

 

[Reef Hero]

i wanna see pics of a heavily stocked frag tank with nothing but coral and eggcrate followed by the super overkill equipment list and massive maintenance and dosing routine to keep everything stable.... plus with all the surfaces exposed to oxygen where would the anaerobic bacteria live that environment only support aerobic bacteria which would cause nitrates to rise even faster requiring even more dosing..... sounds like somebody is rich to do that

while its true corals produce little waste,they do produce some.a zeo system should handle it yes,not the cheapest route,add fish and its a different ball game
and on another note,dont be over feeding those corals or your gonna need a bigger zeo setup
$$$

When or where did money come into a factor here??? I never said it was more or less expensive.... I just said that it is definitely more than possible in our modern age of reef keeping and you do not have to be a millionaire to afford the expenses of it either. I am trying to point people in the right direction and explain to them both sides of everything.... When you come on this forum and argue my points with no proof behind anything you are saying besides childish comments and back talk it really does become annoying to me. I have provided as much prof as possible behind all my statements while you have provided nothing more than your own opinions with absolute no proof behind anything you are saying. The only reason why I continue to argue is that I don't want people who are new to this hobby to be fooled and mislead by others.

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[Reef Hero]

Double post.

 

[Reef Hero]

Thanks for chiming in here James! Not sure why your account was deleted or missing here on TFT but glad to see you were able to create a new one


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[scubasteve]

When or where did money come into a factor here??? I never said it was more or less expensive.... I just said that it is definitely more than possible in our modern age of reef keeping and you do not have to be a millionaire to afford the expenses of it either. I am trying to point people in the right direction and explain to them both sides of everything.... When you come on this forum and argue my points with no proof behind anything you are saying besides childish comments and back talk it really does become annoying to me. I have provided as much prof as possible behind all my statements while you have provided nothing more than your own opinions with absolute no proof behind anything you are saying. The only reason why I continue to argue is that I don't want people who are new to this hobby to be fooled and mislead by others.

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you argue my points even with scientific proof and documentation so how am i misleading please inform me i can gladly start sending email addresses of department heads at universities ive been in contact with so you can get your info correct i did say it is possible but for most folk nowhere near affordable not ever have i used forums for info other than opinions all my research comes from cold hard professionals who dedicate their entire carreer to specifics that im asking about not hobbyists in their spare time.... so again how is it misleading to others and frustrating to you not once have i said YOU ARE WRONG just meerly explained that certain things do more than just what you claim your leaving out key known facys, your the one arguing despite multiple studies done profesionally in controlled environments stating what i tried to explain and show but still just ignorance, every cause that makes you do something also affects other things as well hence cause and effect is one the hardest things to grasp about reefing and can be a viciouse cycle so stop frustrating yourself and maybe ask people and then actually check their sources you may learn something new ive yet to come across many members around here misleading people 99.9% are more helpful than an lfs as for other sites it seems like crashing peoples tanks is a hobby for them so be weary

 

[scubasteve]

Hey Reefers,

It is true that you can keep a tank without sand and LR driven entirely with zeo. I went without sand or rock for sometime, but eventually added for my fish to sleep peacefully at night. There was no rock or sand in the sump. Just a zeo reactor and Reef Octopus 3000-Int skimmer. At the time I started the tank, I already had 13 years of reefing experience. I would never recommend this approach to a new hobbyist.

This is the oldest photo I have in my photobucket account. This is my tank after I added a piece of rock for the fish to sleep. The plastic container with sand is for the Melanarus to sleep at night. Its his sand bed

Ok. Chimed in for my buddy, Ben... Now I have to get back to work! It's quarter end reporting time and I have some numbers to crunch. If you have any questions I will try to pop back on the board over the weekend.

James

Total monthly running costs would be great or even yearly

 

[Reef Hero]

You have not once provided a link or email or names or picture or anything to support your statements. Please post all your references here NOW and what each reference is referring to. You said to show you a reef tank that is run the way I said it was and I DID. Now you are cowarding behind the money issue when money has absolutely nothing to do with this!!


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[scubasteve]

I posted a link directly to a study done about carbon absorbtion yet still argue shall i send it again ?????? Is only a different discussion maybe a page back obviously you never read the full thread and just decided to jump down my throat again have never once said you are wrong ever just stated other things that happen lmao wow someone pissed in your corn flakes and jeez cchas more frags per volume at times hope you dont call that heavily stocked from now on i will gladly list all resources accompanying my comments just for you then there will be no arguements not a problem just more typing for me many other member have simply pm'd or ones who know me call and i give to then so they can go read the full study themselves sorry you didnt have the dignity to just ask to begin with coulda saved alot

 

[Reef Hero]

I posted a link directly to a study done about carbon absorbtion yet still argue shall i send it again ?????? Is only a different discussion maybe a page back obviously you never read the full thread and just decided to jump down my throat again have never once said you are wrong ever just stated other things that happen lmao wow someone pissed in your corn flakes

I asked you to post references here....... So yes I want you to post them here NOW. Just because one or two studies were done and came to a conclusion does not mean that their findings were correct.... And when your findings go against what is a fairly known standard in reef keeping or just water chemistry in general then you better have some good and solid evidence to back it up!
So yes pleas pose all your references. I will contact them myself if I have to in order to get to the bottom of this....
Nobody pissed in my cornflakes. I don't like cornflakes. But when people come onto this forum and make claims that go against standard water chemistry it is upsetting to me and I'm sure many others who have dedicated a lot of their life and time into this hobby and the research behind it.

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[Mr fox]

Great jobs guys lots of replies makes Mr Fox happy happy happy

 

[Reef Hero]

Great jobs guys lots of replies makes Mr Fox happy happy happy

I apologize for what could be considered thread crapping on your thread..... I just want you and others to get the facts straight. There is nothing worse than seeing people fail in this hobby because of being misinformed or for missing a lot of the key info.


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