Lost two corals to RTN???

[theyangman]

I usually watch my tank fairly closely and I noticed something drastic tonight after work.

My large Palmers Blue Mille colony and my Tyree Red Dragon both RTN'd. This is in the past 24-36 hours at the most. The Red Dragon was a 4" frag that was holding its own, chilling out in my frag rack, and *poof* completely white. The Palmers Blue Millie is the bigger annoyance as this thing was actually one of the corals in my tank that I thought was doing really well, and this thing was big. It is now almost completely white.

Oddly enough about 10" away from the main colony is a 4" frag of the palmers blue that I accidentally bought (not remembering that I had it already) and it is looking sweet as a can be swaying in the current nicely, blue as can be.

I quickly then ran a complete test and here are my results:

SG: 1.026
Alk: 6.7 (Hanna)
Cal: 470 (Salifert)
Mag: 1350 (Elos)
Nitrates: 5 - 10 (I can never tell on that damn test) but it definitely isn't the shade of pink that is 20. (Salifert)
Phosphorous: 9 ppb (yay!)

I'm stumped and very disappointed as I thought I was on the slow path to recovery not, devastation....

AND the sharks lost in shoot out...

 

[nexusnight]

I've found low all can cause this. Someone else might have better insight on this but I've heard and aim for more like all at 9. Has ur all always been 6.7 ish? Fluctuations will cause rtn stn as I've learned the hard way lol


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[jroovers]

Could indeed be a fluctuation of some sort. Any temp spikes?  Other than that, your alk shouldn't drop below 7 dkh, but 6.7 isn't that low. Surprised that you have nitrates yet only 9 pbb phosphates, seems odd to me. I try and keep Ca at 420. I'd bring your alk up above 7 and watch things closely. Anything else change or did you add something, water change, etc.?

 

[unibob]

I've found low all can cause this. Someone else might have better insight on this but I've heard and aim for more like all at 9. Has ur all always been 6.7 ish? Fluctuations will cause rtn stn as I've learned the hard way lol


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Make sure your parameters don't go yangy at all. And also if something is rtning take it out and frag off as much healed as you can leaving a good 1/4 from the dead spot, dip and then remount to new plug and put back in tank. Also be careful of chain reaction....

RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis)

Though sometimes referred to as if it were a disease, RTN is not a disease. It is only what its name implies, rapid tissue death. This is when, for any variety of reasons, a coral's tissue begins to rapidly die off (usually leaving the entire coral dead within a few days if not a few hours). Once it starts, RTN is nearly impossible to stop, especially when the cause is unknown. Sometimes a sudden and drastic shift in tank parameters (such as temperature, salinity, pH, etc...) can cause RTN.

IMMEDIATELY remove any coral you suspect to be suffering from RTN. Though it's not known what causes RTN, it has been shown to spread to other corals. This could be because it is caused by an infectious agent. Or, it could be that when one coral dies so rapidly, a significant amount of toxic chemicals are released into the water causing other corals to start dying (a kind of chain reaction).

 

[jroovers]

Also, did you move the corals or change the amount of light or flow they are getting?  That could do it also.

 

[Poseidon]

I had stn a while back and it was caused my flux in my temperatures. Have yours changed at all? What's it at now ?

 

[theyangman]

No change in temp. It is always hovering around 79.
Alk swing I'm not sure, I usually have it pegged above 7 not sure why it went down. Dosed a little more over the course of the night and brought it back over 7
No change in flow at all.
Dead corals have been removed. Nothing salvageable.

 

[reeffreak]

No change in temp. It is always hovering around 79.
Alk swing I'm not sure, I usually have it pegged above 7 not sure why it went down. Dosed a little more over the course of the night and brought it back over 7
No change in flow at all.
Dead corals have been removed. Nothing salvageable.

So your alk was below 7 Dkh ? What exactly was the reading and how much did you dose? Where's the alk levels at now ?

 

[reeffreak]

7 is kinda on the low side, I keep mine around 8, 8.5 dkh.

 

[theyangman]

It read 6.7. My target is 8.7

My last reading 2 weeks ago was 8.6.

So in 14 days I lost 2 Dkh. Not sure exactly why. I didn't have time to check this morning but last night before bed it was reading 7.9, and I added a tiny bit more. (this was over the span of a few hours to bring it up gradually from 6.7 when I initially took the reading after work at 5:00 pm till about 1:30 am when I went to bed. So its not like I dumped in a bottle to jolt it up in the span of 15 min)

 

[reeffreak]

It read 6.7. My target is 8.7

My last reading 2 weeks ago was 8.6.

So in 14 days I lost 2 Dkh. Not sure exactly why. I didn't have time to check this morning but last night before bed it was reading 7.9, and I added a tiny bit more. (this was over the span of a few hours to bring it up gradually from 6.7 when I initially took the reading after work at 5:00 pm till about 1:30 am when I went to bed. So its not like I dumped in a bottle to jolt it up in the span of 15 min)

U lost alk because your sps are using it up. Should be dosing everyday to stay at the same level. Going from 6.7 to 8 in a day is most likely why u lost some sps. That's a hard jump for them to handle.

 

[reeffreak]

The dose should have been spread out between 2 days, this way it's not so much for the corals.

Raising alk 1dkh in 24 hours is ideal, weather is dosing 25 ml every 4-5 hours. Even then 1dkh could be to much for some species of sps.

6.7 could be a reason for the rtn or the spike in alk levels could cause the issue.

 

[TORX]

I'm stumped and very disappointed as I thought I was on the slow path to recovery not, devastation....

Please define "slow path to recovery". A lot has happened in a few weeks. It has been less then 2 weeks since the "cloudy water" issue, most likely a bacteria bloom from prodibio + pellets being added and not allowed to work before adding the prodibio. It hasn't been 3 weeks since your "GFO side effects" and about 2 weeks ago, you were reading 0.08, then dropped to 0.006 or something super low in less then 1 week. Plus all the other chemicals that have been added in the last few weeks to lower your levels quickly.

I hope the guys can help you salvage some frags. Or give you a place to hold some, which might be a good idea, while you wait for your tank to stabilize.

 

[theyangman]

Slow path in that everything was finally reading correctly, as per the specs that my tank should have admittedly been within from the start. Also, that nothing had gone wrong in a while hence I was really hoping to be on the path to stability and eventual rebound. I don't add anything extraneous to my tank that you guys don't other than Prodibio.

I run GFO, Carbon, and Pellets, with a side regiment of Prodibio (Bio clean and Bio digest) and that's it. Everything else is simply nature taking its course. I run filter socks and fairly regular water changes.

The "issues" I was having with my reactors was not getting the proper amount of tumbling in them, not much else. They were all online for months now, but only in recent weeks have come within an acceptable flow rate for my liking really and what I have gathered that they require to work at their full potential.

A part of me would like to rip out all the corals and give them a solid temporary home while I fix everything but alas, I hardly believe anyone would take on the work of housing all my corals for free for months on end. Plus ripping out this many corals would be a huge undertaking to begin with. My 220 isn't "lightly" stocked by any definition.

 

[Poseidon]

. My 220 isn't \"lightly\" stocked by any definition.

no, you have more stock in your tank since you started than i do after over a year

 

[reeffreak]

Slow path in that everything was finally reading correctly, as per the specs that my tank should have admittedly been within from the start. Also, that nothing had gone wrong in a while hence I was really hoping to be on the path to stability and eventual rebound. I don't add anything extraneous to my tank that you guys don't other than Prodibio.

I run GFO, Carbon, and Pellets, with a side regiment of Prodibio (Bio clean and Bio digest) and that's it. Everything else is simply nature taking its course. I run filter socks and fairly regular water changes.

The \"issues\" I was having with my reactors was not getting the proper amount of tumbling in them, not much else. They were all online for months now, but only in recent weeks have come within an acceptable flow rate for my liking really and what I have gathered that they require to work at their full potential.

A part of me would like to rip out all the corals and give them a solid temporary home while I fix everything but alas, I hardly believe anyone would take on the work of housing all my corals for free for months on end. Plus ripping out this many corals would be a huge undertaking to begin with. My 220 isn't \"lightly\" stocked by any definition.

Not being lightly stocked is the reason u have to dose daily. 220 gallon full of sps, you can't just test every 2 weeks for alk and cal, they should be checked daily till you find a routine dosing schedule that works for the tank.

 

[TORX]

I know all of the timelines, I have even gone back on your posts/threads to make sure I had the right timelines before commenting. I think some people here do not recall the changes in the tank and just go off what is posted in each of your individual threads. I am sorry to hear that you are having an RTN issue, and like I said, I hope that someone here is able to help you.

 

[reeffreak]

Test today, test tomorrow at the same tim, see how much you went down, get a rough Idea on what you should be dosing daily and your golden, nothing but the watch and grow game after. I've been playing the game for a year Tony, and at the 8 month mark I lost it all. everything was stable one day then fell apart the next. All sps gone. It's not easy keep these species thriving .

 

[jroovers]

I think you need to think a bit longer term stability wise - "stable" parameters would be defined as no changes in Alk, Ca, Mag, Salinity, Nitrate, Phosphates, temp etc. for multiple months (e.g. 3 to 6, or maybe even greater), as opposed to a few days or even weeks.  Above all else, your SPS troubles are definitely related to lack of stability and tank maturity... if and when you get things stable, you can expect good things to happen... until then, you may continue to fight brown coral and RTN.  Also, if your corals are in a weakened state already, any problems with instability are going to be greatly compounded, as a weakened SPS coral will be less tolerant of such change.  I'm sure you'll get there Tony, but I think an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure if you follow what I'm saying.

 

[Reef Hero]

Tony,

Your sps likely rtnd for various reasons and more could be on their way out.....sorry to say.
It is good to hear that u have ur po4 under control but this is really only a small piece of the puzzle. You need to worry about other things first such as your nitrates, alk, calcium, mag, sg, temp, etc.
At this point going two weeks without testing alk is not acceptable as you can now see why. You need to test more often! Please be aware that ur parameters are not stable and when increasing alk it is going to be important to watch the other params as well because they are all connected.  As to why you seen the alk drop.....could be many reason really.....however you did say that ur sps were starting to come around and when this happens they can consume more. One question, do you see coralline algae growing anywhere in your tank?