Wire And Amps

[Jason Bell]

I do have a power meter, perhaps I should connect that and see what it says. I am planning on rewiring the area from the panel, I figure 2 circuits as I am adding an additional tank, just a frag tank, to the main, but that will need lights and a power head or 2.

 

[Salty Cracker]

I have a kill-A-watt gizmo too, I should run it on my setup, although since the switch to LEDs, I've been a whole lot less worried about amps.

When going on vacation, I split heaters, pumps and backup batteries onto 2 circuits, but otherwise run the whole thing on a shared 15A breaker. 15A is a lot of juice. I use big UPS backups to ease the startup surge after a power outage. I think most issues would come from a full power startup of a whole tank. In fact, even the apex helps a bit, as it powers on things in timed stages after an outage.

**** Anyone doing their own wiring should be aware that while it is technically legal to run your own wiring, it is not legal to hook it up. Get an inspection done on any wiring you do. Insurance investigators are REALLY good at finding home wiring jobs after fires, and good luck getting your money out of them if they find something. Be safe and contact a professional, don't ask us idiots on the internet! ****

 

[MrHermit85]

Not just bad practice! its illegal! When i rewired my sub panel in my hot tub room i found a bunch wired that way and had to switch to space saver to fix it up.

If you are worried about space in the panel, check out space saver breakers, same size as a regular except you can run 2 feeds off it.

illegal yes but still done unfortunately. Classic weekend warrior stuff. I have worked on panels where virtually everything was doubled up lol. Sometimes it is hard to believe the place hasn’t burned down yet

 

[Josh]

Careful with those in line power meters, most of them are only actually rated for ~500w. You run 12A thru them i bet itll overheat and burn out in ~3 hrs.

Also in regards to @Salty Cracker be careful who does your inspection. My house has aluminum wiring and during the sale i made sure they had it inspected and safetied for insurance reasons. Once we moved in i had found they really had not inspected shit, it had a bunch of illegal and loose wires. 1 of the outlets even had burn marks because the wire wasnt even tight inside. Yet some group of idiots put their name on it and said it was safe. I wondered to myself whether insurance would bend me over despite the fact i had an inspection from a licensed ESA contractor. Ive since added all the correct anti oxidant conenctors for aluminum wiring. Scary what i found though on an inspected electrical system.

 

[TORX]

Careful with those in line power meters, most of them are only actually rated for ~500w. You run 12A thru them i bet itll overheat and burn out in ~3 hrs.

Also in regards to @Salty Cracker be careful who does your inspection. My house has aluminum wiring and during the sale i made sure they had it inspected and safetied for insurance reasons. Once we moved in i had found they really had not inspected shit, it had a bunch of illegal and loose wires. 1 of the outlets even had burn marks because the wire wasnt even tight inside. Yet some group of idiots put their name on it and said it was safe. I wondered to myself whether insurance would bend me over despite the fact i had an inspection from a licensed ESA contractor. Ive since added all the correct anti oxidant conenctors for aluminum wiring. Scary what i found though on an inspected electrical system.

I had the same crap at my house and it was an actual repitable company. We had outlets where either the top or bottom worked, 1 burned outlet and 1 that shocked and sparked when ever something was plugged in. It was the old ungrounded cloth wrapped wire. So much of it was chewed through from mice. Now 90% of the wiring has been replaced up to code. Just out kitchen fridge and wall outlets left.

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[Josh]

Honestly and i mean no offense to any of the electricians here but i prefer to do my own electrical, i deal with so many braindead electricians in my line of work that i just cant do it anymore. A good service electrician is worth their weight in gold though.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Careful with those in line power meters, most of them are only actually rated for ~500w. You run 12A thru them i bet itll overheat and burn out in ~3 hrs.

Also in regards to @Salty Cracker be careful who does your inspection. My house has aluminum wiring and during the sale i made sure they had it inspected and safetied for insurance reasons. Once we moved in i had found they really had not inspected shit, it had a bunch of illegal and loose wires. 1 of the outlets even had burn marks because the wire wasnt even tight inside. Yet some group of idiots put their name on it and said it was safe. I wondered to myself whether insurance would bend me over despite the fact i had an inspection from a licensed ESA contractor. Ive since added all the correct anti oxidant conenctors for aluminum wiring. Scary what i found though on an inspected electrical system.

Well I've had 19 inspections in my lifetime, and only a couple of them were a bit questionable, I of course mean actual certified electrical inspectors, not "home inspectors" which I liken to asking a 2 year old how a nuclear reactor works...

I'm not sure how inspections were done back when aluminum was in common use, but these days the guys I have dealt with take their shit seriously. I had my panel upped to 200a by reefhoero (who unfortunately hasn't been sucked back into the hobby...yet) and he called for a real inspector, who was totally decent, and had suggestions for the next steps in my renovation...and the certification of my panel is on record. Now, if I go and start digging around in the box, or adding lines, then the inspection is no longer valid as far as I know, and honestly you can -usually- tell when a pro does a job (proper slack in lines, no pinched hold downs, screwed connections not push-in, etc etc). In fact you can usually even tell in a junction box how good the job on your place might be. Good electricians keep things neat. Even seeing if the screws on the wall plates are lined up can tell a lot about the quality of the job done. I mean, there's so much to it, I've run so much wire in my day (and yes have had to do proper pigtails with anti oxidant in older houses), but I will never say I know almost anything about the legalities or nuances of electricity. Ijn fact every electrician I have ever worked with has taught me at least one thing I had no idea about...and they still call it "monkey wiring" because it's supposedly so simple a monkey could do it (they can't I tried, I miss that poor monkey)

 

[MrHermit85]

I agree with salty, an inspection is 1-200 and they will tell you exactly where you went wrong. As a home owner you can pull a permit and do the work. If there is a problem you are covered as it was inspected. It just takes pulling the permit and having the ESA inspect...

I have aluminum wiring in my house. When we bought we had the ESA inspect for insurance. We also renovated and I still pulled permits for everything even though I am an electrician . I believe it was someone on the TFT that pointed out that it is an insurance companies business to find a way not to pay you. So why give them the chance... a few hundred now can save you potentially the cost of your home if something happens. Of course it likely won’t happen but it can happen

 

[MrHermit85]

How about this? Two 14/2 wire going from the fish room to the panel and each wire connect to a 15 amp. On the other end of my the wires, each wire are connect to two outlets and one light.
In the past I have ran 3 radion g4, skimmer, apex 2 mp 40 and 2 little fish reactor with out any issue just from regular home outlets
Is what I mentioned above safe?

sounds good, 2 plugs and a light on each 15amp breaker a cct for each tank. (As long as you are happy with 15amps or less for each tank. Let me know if you still want a diagram...

 

[Salty Cracker]

I agree with salty, an inspection is 1-200 and they will tell you exactly where you went wrong. As a home owner you can pull a permit and do the work. If there is a problem you are covered as it was inspected. It just takes pulling the permit and having the ESA inspect...

I have aluminum wiring in my house. When we bought we had the ESA inspect for insurance. We also renovated and I still pulled permits for everything even though I am an electrician . I believe it was someone on the TFT that pointed out that it is an insurance companies business to find a way not to pay you. So why give them the chance... a few hundred now can save you potentially the cost of your home if something happens. Of course it likely won’t happen but it can happen

Very likely that was me. I have a very good friend who has been in the past, employed by insurance companies to NOT pay large claims. He still is adamant that pulling your inspection records is the first thing he does...and often doesn't have to do much more. Not only electrical wiring either, anything that falls under a person's municipal jurisdiction for 'improvements'. In town here, public inspection records are public, although I haven't found an easy way to look up electrical inspections beyond calling them up and asking. People do renos all the time and negate their insurance and never know it. Take down a wall, remodel a kitchen or even changing some simple plumbing. For those that live in London, here's a few of the resources I use when checking out a property for a client:
https://www.london.ca/residents/Property-Matters/homeownersinformation/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.london.ca/business/Permit-Licences/Building-Permits/Pages/work-requiring-a-permit.aspx
Oh and check out your property (you do have to sign up for a portal account now I believe)
https://apps.london.ca/ePermitsMVC/

(sorry, not wanting to go off topic, just useful info for my fellow fish-folk!)

 

[Kevin Tran]

sounds good, 2 plugs and a light on each 15amp breaker a cct for each tank. (As long as you are happy with 15amps or less for each tank. Let me know if you still want a diagram...

I good now have thank

 

[Kevin Tran]

As for me I will just run the wires and a friend who is license will inspect and wire to the panel. I rather be safe

 

[mmatt]

Not sure if the question is still there but why go bare minimum or less. Why risk it. I just finished my fish room in sept and everything is running on a 20amp breaker with 12/2 and a dedicated GFCI. I have a lot of equipment running. 6bulb ati T5 light, two reef Brites, one radion xr30 (for frag section);pumps for tank and ro/Di mixing system, apex system with two power bars, and whatever else is accociated with the set up. Lights for the room it's self and venting is on a seperate breaker.

Only issue I've had was a faulty GFCI. Which happens. Volts and totally amperages are important to know in order to calculate what size wire, breaker, etc you need.

Also important to have a GFCI on the breaker needs to be first in line on the circuit to protect everything.

Now I'm not an electrician but have more than the basic knowledge.

Oh I guess I should say my set up is a 180gal in wall with approx 75 - 100 gall sump

Hope that helps

 

[Josh]

Im a fan of the gfci breakers. Maybe think about using 1 of those.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Im a fan of the gfci breakers. Maybe think about using 1 of those.

I'm a fan of everything except the price on those suckers. I think I have 2 in the panel, and they cost more than the panel itself I think.

 

[mmatt]

I'm a fan of everything except the price on those suckers. I think I have 2 in the panel, and they cost more than the panel itself I think.

Ya if you can even find them for the panel you have. That was originally what I had planned but couldn't source a 20amp GFCI breaker square D brand. And even if I could, the $200+ price tag on them got me a little upset. the solution I came up with was a blank GFCI next to the panel.

Who wants to spend that on a breaker. I'd rather spend that on an Aussie torch or something. Lol

 

[Kevin Tran]

So this what I am going with, cost roughly $300 with tax. 12/2 wire, twin 20 amp normal breaker, 15/20A switch and 4 GFCI outlets

 

[Josh]

take 2 of those gfci's back. You can only have 1 gfci per circuit. having 2 on 1 circuit causes them to not work properly. You wire the GFCI 1st in line then you wire regular recepticles after that and the gfci protects them too. Dont ask me the specifics but if you put 2 of them in the circuit 1 will trip the other. It has to do with counting electrons in vs out and the 1 gfci will trick the other into thinking their is a small ground.

Edit : Before i get argued on this, there is ways to make that work it just generally isnt a great idea.

 

[Salty Cracker]

I second Josh, they don't trip right away, it will be like a gremlin. Had this issue in one of my rental properties. Replaced a GFCI twice before I realized it was one in a bedroom that was on the same circuit. Would be find for months, then I get the call that the GFCI won't reset...

 

[TORX]

Very true, you only need 1 to be protected however if installed correctly if that one trips then all the outlets after that also shut off, aka, the entire system will loose power. You can have more then 1 GFCI on a circuit if wired correctly. To my understanding most kitchens now a days have several GFCI over the counter.



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