Red Cauliflower Softie

[nathan]

Just wondering if any one has or still has these and what you think of them. I just ordered one so I'm curious on others opinion

 

[Joshbrookkate]

I just researched. It is beautiful!
I am going to look for one, as well.
Maybe Ian Bell can get them?

 

[nathan]

I just researched. It is beautiful!
I am going to look for one, as well.
Maybe Ian Bell can get them?

I've liked them for some time... they are filter feeders... one popped up on canada coral. So I grabbed it up

 

[AdInfinitum]

All of these NPS are a lot of work to keep and make it hard to maintain reef water quality due to the heavy feedings. I love them but have always preferred to keep them in a smaller dedicated NPS tank plumbed into the main system. You shut off the flow to the tank and saturate the water with food every couple of days. Then after the NPS have had a chance to feed, turn the flow back on and the food heavy water becomes the coral feeding for the main tank.

Otherwise consider mounting your NPS on magnets or small rocks so you can pull them out and put them in a plastic container of tank water for feeding every few days.

 

[yveterinarian]

I had an orange one that did well for a while but slowly disappeared. I have always wanted to try again but haven't been out looking actively. If yours does well maybe frags are in your future?

 

[Kman]

NPS corals are beautiful but are advanced corals with extra care needs. Unless you have years of experience in keeping corals, have an aged system and are willing to put the extra amount of effort in they should be left where they are. In the ocean. Buying one should not be taken lightly. NPS corals put a huge strain on your systems bio load because of the shear amount of extra food needed to sustain them. They add a lot of potential algae issues that can effect other corals in the tank. Unless you are willing to set up a biotope tank, are experienced with many years, have an aged productive reef or are able and willing to make big changes to how you manage your current system don't get one.

Ask yourself this, how do I constantly feed corals with massive amounts of food yet not impact my water quality? How do I remove wasted food yet keep food density up so that the coral can feed continually? At the same time not degrade my water quality or remove available food. How do i deal with the algae issue that will arise and how to I stop them? Do I have nuisance algae now? NPS corals don't like nuisance algae. Do I really know the amount of extra food my system can handle without causing and issue and how fast I can ramp the extra food up? As food requirements increase over time as the corals are not the only one to feed on the food. You food web will also eat up a lot so you need to be able to figure out what your system can handle and what it can't. Do you have any pests like hydroids or aiptasia? Because with all the suspended food they will also increase and you have to be able to deal with this issue to. As their populations will explode. What other corals do you have? Are they able to tolerate the elevated nutrient levels and are you experienced enough to handle this. Things like SPS are tricky in situations like this and unless you are experience in spotting issues before they happen you will run into issues. Is my water volume large enough to handle all the extra food? Because small system will ramp up and deteriorate very quickly in water quality. All these things and more should be thought about before buying a NPS coral. Even for someone with experience these are tricky corals.

 

[Joshbrookkate]

Great advice, Kman. Thanks for taking the time to post this for us!

 

[nathan]

Yes great advice kman much appreciated

 

[Kman]

If people are willing to make the extra effort and time it can be done. it is best to keep in a NPS tank so the environment can be controlled. Unless you have a lot of experience. Check out my Blueberry thread for ideas in feeding if you are really set on it. But they are not easy long term. A productive fuge with lots of live food is a must. So if you don't have one start with that and set it up as a first step.

 

[AdInfinitum]

To cla

If people are willing to make the extra effort and time it can be done. it is best to keep in a NPS tank so the environment can be controlled. Unless you have a lot of experience. Check out my Blueberry thread for ideas in feeding if you are really set on it. But they are not easy long term. A productive fuge with lots of live food is a must. So if you don't have one start with that and set it up as a first step.

The beauty of a dedicated NPS tank is they only require lighting for your viewing (the less the better since NPS lack ability to combat algae). As long as the tank is small relative to your main system, you can feed it heavily to put a very high food density in during feedings without having a significant impact on the total system when you release the leftovers into your DT. I could saturate the water in my old 15 gallon NPS knowing that the unconsumed food would just be a light feeding when it mixed into the 300+ gallon system.

My Dendro colony (by far the easiest NPS to keep) catches enough food to survive (since it can eat whole mysis) but to grow and thrive in my frag tank I still remove it to a container for high-density feedings on a regular basis.

 

[nathan]

To cla

The beauty of a dedicated NPS tank is they only require lighting for your viewing (the less the better since NPS lack ability to combat algae). As long as the tank is small relative to your main system, you can feed it heavily to put a very high food density in during feedings without having a significant impact on the total system when you release the leftovers into your DT. I could saturate the water in my old 15 gallon NPS knowing that the unconsumed food would just be a light feeding when it mixed into the 300+ gallon system.

My Dendro colony (by far the easiest NPS to keep) catches enough food to survive (since it can eat whole mysis) but to grow and thrive in my frag tank I still remove it to a container for high-density feedings on a regular basis.

How often did u remove to a container for heavy feeding

 

[AdInfinitum]

How often did u remove to a container for heavy feeding

My Dendro I only take out once a week but since they can eat regular fish food...I added some to the frag tank and watched for a spot that food naturally flowed to and swirled and that is where I placed it in the tank so everyday when I feed the fish they get fed as well. Finding a spot like that was how I kept them in the DT as well since I don't have the time to continually spot feed. For smaller polyp filter feeders I used to feed them every three days for no specific reason except it seemed to work...

 

[Kman]

Removing to a separate tank may work for calcareous species like Dendro that are more easy to keep for a NPS, but will not typically work on soft body species like carnation coral (Dendronephthya sp), gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta. Soft body corals like these grow to the surrounding water flow to maximize polyp extension\orrentation for maxamized feeding times. Filter feeders like this need specific flow rates\orientation so polyps can extend and feed. They are not good at target feeding like large polyp NPS like dendro as they have fine polyps that sieve the water and easily clog with spot feeding thereby reducing feeding and efficiency times. They need to be almost constantly open to filter the water or you will get tissue regression. The ends of branches will die for gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta and the coral will shrink for Dendronephthya sp due to the lack of food and the inability to feed. If you constantly move these corals the change in orientation\flow stops them from opening up and the change in orientation\water flow reduces the efficiency and ability of feeding. As the corals have grown to a specific orientation\flow the polyps will have orientated to that environment and most polyps will be reduced in the ability to capture food or unable to feed at all. Every time I move my gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta and when I had a Dendronephthya sp they remain closed for better part of a day. That is almost an entire day of lost feeding. As they don't have the ability to store lots of extra energy reserves like a dendro they quickly deteriorate.
Reduced feeding on these coral of every few day doesn't work as well. The polyps only open with the presence of food and will remain closed. Every time they open\close or are not actively feeding you waste needed energy from the energy budget that needs to be made up by active feeding. If you move regularly sp like Dendronephthya they will get tissue regression because the lack of ability to feed. The energy needs to come from somewhere for metobolic needs like resporation and daily energy needs so they will have to take it from the coral tissue itself. As a defense mechanism they will reduce the amount of tissue because of lack of food in an attempt to buy more time. The problem is the first thing to go is the fine polyps and they loose their feathery appearance. This reduces the ability to filter the water properly and till the tissue can regenerate they are not able to feed properly. Most people that keep these NPS corals unless they are getting the proper amount of food the coral will just exist and not thrive or grow. They will notice as the coral slowly shrinks and withers away over time. All of this is the reason they are considered advanced...

 

[AdInfinitum]

Removing to a separate tank may work for calcareous species like Dendro that are more easy to keep for a NPS, but will not typically work on soft body species like carnation coral (Dendronephthya sp), gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta. Soft body corals like these grow to the surrounding water flow to maximize polyp extension\orrentation for maxamized feeding times. Filter feeders like this need specific flow rates\orientation so polyps can extend and feed. They are not good at target feeding like large polyp NPS like dendro as they have fine polyps that sieve the water and easily clog with spot feeding thereby reducing feeding and efficiency times. They need to be almost constantly open to filter the water or you will get tissue regression. The ends of branches will die for gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta and the coral will shrink for Dendronephthya sp due to the lack of food and the inability to feed. If you constantly move these corals the change in orientation\flow stops them from opening up and the change in orientation\water flow reduces the efficiency and ability of feeding. As the corals have grown to a specific orientation\flow the polyps will have orientated to that environment and most polyps will be reduced in the ability to capture food or unable to feed at all. Every time I move my gorgonians like Blueberry or Swiftia exserta and when I had a Dendronephthya sp they remain closed for better part of a day. That is almost an entire day of lost feeding. As they don't have the ability to store lots of extra energy reserves like a dendro they quickly deteriorate.
Reduced feeding on these coral of every few day doesn't work as well. The polyps only open with the presence of food and will remain closed. Every time they open\close or are not actively feeding you waste needed energy from the energy budget that needs to be made up by active feeding. If you move regularly sp like Dendronephthya they will get tissue regression because the lack of ability to feed. The energy needs to come from somewhere for metobolic needs like resporation and daily energy needs so they will have to take it from the coral tissue itself. As a defense mechanism they will reduce the amount of tissue because of lack of food in an attempt to buy more time. The problem is the first thing to go is the fine polyps and they loose their feathery appearance. This reduces the ability to filter the water properly and till the tissue can regenerate they are not able to feed properly. Most people that keep these NPS corals unless they are getting the proper amount of food the coral will just exist and not thrive or grow. They will notice as the coral slowly shrinks and withers away over time. All of this is the reason they are considered advanced...

Absolutely agree which is why the fine polyp delicate species are for experienced and dedicated keepers only...
When kept in a dedicated NPS tank plumbed into a large mature system however, the fine filter feeders will constantly acquire at least subsistence level nutrition from the micro flora and fauna constantly in the water column of a mature system and the heavy dedicated feedings every few days are the "feasts" to speed growth. This is much like the cyclic nature of periodic nutrient blooms brought on by current shifts et al on the reef.

 

[Kman]

I have actually kept Carnation corals and other soft NPS a few times and as well as other fine filter NPS so I base what I say on experience. Occasional feeding don't work on all species even with productive refugiums to add supplemental food. As most foods that our system produce that are in the water column are to large a size to be eaten. This is why we need to add foods like reef roids regularly that are the particulate matter size. I have a 110 gallon sump with most of it dedicated to macro algae with a thriving food web and if i don't feed three times a day my BlueBerry soon gets dead tips and the base recedes. Same with when I had Carnation corals without three times a day feeding on top of the constant live food the coral slowly wasted away. Occasional feedings only work with a very few species of NPS. If this was true and it was as simple as occasional feedings a week with a little food from the sump these corals would not be considered advanced corals. Even set up in a dedicated tank these species are not easy to keep. If you read articles by Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung in The reef aquarium, The modern coral reef aquarium by Svein A. Fossa and Alf Jacob Nilsen or Aquarium corals by Eric Borneman. All these authors go into great detail stating those coral without zooxanthellae require frequent regular feeding and most consume fine particulate matter. That zooplankton or phyto capture (like you would get from your sump) is only a small portion of there diet. I can back this as I have kept NPS on and off for decades, so I have experience in the needs of these corals. (Not saying you don't) Even if you could keep them and only give them enough subsistence just enough to live what is the point of keeping a coral if it will not thrive and grow? But only survive basically. Can it be done, yes, Should it be kept by anyone except a experience person? No.

 

[AdInfinitum]

Bottom line regarding the subject of this thread....is that I have never had any lasting success keeping Carnation corals (Dendronephthya) in my own systems even in dedicated NPS tanks that were sufficient to grow many "difficult" gorgs etc. Further I have never witnessed any real success with them in huge biotope systems that were even able to support Crinoids among other filter feeders. So unfortunately, at this point Carnations and (since I brought them up...) feather stars need to be removed from our personal stocking lists until reef keeping advances a few more steps.

 

[Kman]

Oh I totally agree on they don't last long and should not be bought by most people if at all. Even with experience and frequent feeding mine have not lasted over 2 years. Considering I have a few corals over 25 that is not a good success rate. I typically don't recommend corals like NPS to people. Even with huge amounts of extra feeding the success rate is dismal. I actually find that soft corals like Dendronephthya and others like it are harder to keep then some of the gorgonians. They did fine at first but once they grow and hit the larger size their food needs far outweigh what we can provide in the typical home aquarium. The nutrient level in the tank steadily climbed as they got bigger then needed more and more food. Till one day they start shrinking and nothing I did to stop it helped.

 

[thehvacman]

I don't have much experience with the fine filter feeders, but I do have lots of experience with Dendrophyllia. I have 1 colony that started with 1 head 8 years ago and is now close to 50 heads. And another colony that started with 1 head 4 years ago and is now close to 20 heads. In my experience they are real easy to target feed, and have been super hardy in my system, but I can't keep Duncan's for some reason. I do keep my Dendrophyllia in caves so that they get no light, and I feed all of lps meaty foods 3 times a week and reef roids go in daily. Staying on top of aptasia is more of a chore. I hate aptasia!

 

[Kman]

The Dendrophyllia are for sure easier to keep though still not what I consider a easy keep coral. They still need extra work. But out of all the NPS they are a good start and if you put effort into them they have a Ok survival rate. With all the extra feeding aiptasia suck for sure. I have a matted file fish that eats them but i still have to weekly use aiptasia X to keep them under control. Major downside to heavy feeding for sure.