Horrible Week!

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

Well I've had a horrible week!

I noticed some spots on my Lamarck angelfish and not long after my cleaner wrasse, anthias, tang and 6-line had them too.

I began to feed TONS of food soaked in garlic to make sure they were all eating and could stand a chance. I began doing research on QT and different treatments. Turns out it wasn't just ich, but marine velvet aswell.

In total I lost 4 fish and possibly more to come. My tang, angel, cleaner wrasse and anthias all succumbed to velvet.

I've never set up a QT before because I couldn't have another tank(parents....). Now that they've seen how bad just introducing fish into your DT is they've allowed me to set one up.

I'm going to be going fish less for 8 weeks to rid the parasites in my tank. And in my QT I will treat with Copper and Prazipro.

Does anyone have experience using these two meds together?


My lion ain't looking too hot either...but at least one good thing came out of this...I managed to catch my 6-line wrasse!!!

 

[nathan]

No experience in this matter but my condolences on the loss of your fish

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

No experience in this matter but my condolences on the loss of your fish

Thanks man

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

Another question. To prevent bacteria infections from entering the DT aswell, would copper or prazipro do that? Or would I need a antibiotic like Furan 2?

 

[AdInfinitum]

Sorry to hear about your experience..it happens to everyone eventually...

Prazi is good and safe to use and is OK to mix with copper based medication.

Copper is a solid general treatment although it must be tested and monitored closely to be effective yet not overly toxic to the fish. Many species are not tolerant of copper including lionfish so it cannot always be used.

NEVER USE CUPRAMINE WITH PRIME!!!
They will interact and are highly toxic together.
The Salifert copper test kit is the only really reliable hobbyist kit that is accurate and reliable and you must monitor copper for it to be effective.
Further, some strains of ich and velvet common in commercial aquaculture have become resistant to copper (and hyposalinity), now requiring levels that are increasingly toxic to the hosts.

Chloroquine Phosphate is a great alternative treatment for protozoal parasites (ich, velvet, brook) safe for most sensitive fish and capable of attacking 2 stages of the lifecycle thus speeding the effective cure cycle.

Metronidazole is a super effective and safe to use medication in the water or better in medicated foods with many general positives.

Antibiotics are good to have to prevent secondary infections and help sick or weakened fish. You cannot "keep bacterial diseases out" as most are just natural fauna on and in the fishes bodies just like we have on and in us at all times, many of which play necessary roles. They just become infections when fish are weak or damaged. Nevertheless many antibiotic variants are good to prevent those secondary infections during treatment and most are very safe. As with all antibiotics changing types periodically to mitigate resistance is key.

 

[yveterinarian]

So sorry you lost your fish!
I agree with Adinfinitum but wanted to add NEVER put antibiotics into your display tank. It will wipe out your biological filter. That is the reason for a quarantine tank. Whenever I setup a quarantine tank I use an uncycled tank and put an open ended airline in. Use fake plants as cover for the fish as any rock will absorb the medication/treatments you are using. Do a 50% water change daily to keep the water quality better. Some people put in a sponge that has been in their sump to be the biological filter. They throw it away after and put a new sponge in the sump ready for the next quaratine if needed especially if you have used a copper based medication. I use Prime daily but as Adinfintum stated you can't use it with cupramine so the daily water changes will definitely be the way to go. Don't put a bright light on them, just a soft light as some medications like Furan 2 are light sensitive.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

My lion passed away this morning.

Thanks for the help guys! Can I use Furan 2 as a dip or does it have to be in the QT water?

 

[thehvacman]

Oh man that sucks! It really does happen to everyone. Its how we learn to do things properly, very hard leason to learn. I would let your display tank go 10 weeks with no fish just to be safe. Whats 2 more weeks. Good luck

 

[yveterinarian]

If you still have fish you wish to dose with antibiotic it is best to put them in a 10 gallon tank and dose the tank with furan 2 for 10 days. Use one full packet the first day, then change 50% of the water each succeeding day and dose 1/2 the packet of Furan 2. Basically you are replacing what you have removed. It doesn't work as a dip because, like any human antibiotic, it needs time to work. If your quarantine tank is larger you will need to adjust the dosing. ie: 20 gallon tank - 2 packets to start then 1 packet each successive day after 50% water change. Complete the full 10 days of treatment to kill off the organism and so that the organism doesn't get a small treatment then become resistant to the antibiotic. Keep in mind that after the full treatment the fish may still have some sores on them. Keep them in the quarantine tand until all spots are healed but it doesn't necessarily mean that they need more antibiotic. Sores take time to heal as well.

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

If you still have fish you wish to dose with antibiotic it is best to put them in a 10 gallon tank and dose the tank with furan 2 for 10 days. Use one full packet the first day, then change 50% of the water each succeeding day and dose 1/2 the packet of Furan 2. Basically you are replacing what you have removed. It doesn't work as a dip because, like any human antibiotic, it needs time to work. If your quarantine tank is larger you will need to adjust the dosing. ie: 20 gallon tank - 2 packets to start then 1 packet each successive day after 50% water change. Complete the full 10 days of treatment to kill off the organism and so that the organism doesn't get a small treatment then become resistant to the antibiotic. Keep in mind that after the full treatment the fish may still have some sores on them. Keep them in the quarantine tand until all spots are healed but it doesn't necessarily mean that they need more antibiotic. Sores take time to heal as well.

So I shouldn't treat with an antibiotic unless I see signs of an infection? Sorry this is all new to me and I'm really confused.

 

[AdInfinitum]

Use antibiotics if the fish have infected wounds or if they have damage (physical or from parasites) to prevent secondary infections and only in QT.

Antibiotics are not necessary during QT if the fish are essentially healthy and undamaged specimens.

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

Use antibiotics if the fish have infected wounds or if they have damage (physical or from parasites) to prevent secondary infections and only in QT.

Antibiotics are not necessary during QT if the fish are essentially healthy and undamaged specimens.

Understood! Yvette mentioned about adding a cycled sponge from the tank. If I add my current sponge does that mean I have a cycled QT? Or will I still have the ammonia spikes?

 

[sunnykita]

Awhhh Zack, I'm so sorry you are losing your fish, it just plain sucks. Even with a cycled sponge in a newly set up quarantine tank you'll still get a cycle, and will have to do water changes to be safe. Good luck, I hope this is the end of the losses for you

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

Awhhh Zack, I'm so sorry you are losing your fish, it just plain sucks. Even with a cycled sponge in a newly set up quarantine tank you'll still get a cycle, and will have to do water changes to be safe. Good luck, I hope this is the end of the losses for you

It sure does! And that's what I thought, just wasn't sure.

 

[yveterinarian]

When I set up a quarantine tank for antibiotic use I don't use a sponge at all or anything that provides a biological filter because the antibiotic will just kill the biological filter anyway - this means that the 50% water changes are a MUST to help control the ammonia. I also use Prime daily.

When I set up a quarantine tank to isolate new fish before adding them to my DT I use a cycled sponge, a small electrical pump and filter combination that hangs on the tank for water flow and add Prime daily to offset the smaller ammonia spike you will get with the small cycle. To this end I always have a small sponge sitting in my sump ready for a quarantine tank if needed.

 

[Hong]

Sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing. Lots of info/experience being passed on here, others will benefit.

 

[LIttle Reef Keeper]

Sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing. Lots of info/experience being passed on here, others will benefit.

I will never not QT again! I lost a lot of fish, I don't even care about the money, it's the connection I had with the fish!

 

[sunnykita]

When I set up a quarantine tank for antibiotic use I don't use a sponge at all or anything that provides a biological filter because the antibiotic will just kill the biological filter anyway - this means that the 50% water changes are a MUST to help control the ammonia. I also use Prime daily.

When I set up a quarantine tank to isolate new fish before adding them to my DT I use a cycled sponge, a small electrical pump and filter combination that hangs on the tank for water flow and add Prime daily to offset the smaller ammonia spike you will get with the small cycle. To this end I always have a small sponge sitting in my sump ready for a quarantine tank if needed.

Lots of good advice here Zack @LIttle Reef Keeper you'll get past this big bump and be a better aquarist, it's a tough way to learn, but sometimes our toughest lessons are the ones we never forget. We've all been there at one point or another

 

[Nonuser]

I will never not QT again! I lost a lot of fish, I don't even care about the money, it's the connection I had with the fish!

I try not to get emotionally invested in my fish. I mean my Lawnmower Blenny have locked eyes a few times and you can definitely feel the chemistry between us. But I always keep it professional.

 

[thehvacman]

Everyone should also realize that parasites can also come into the display through coral additions. Everything including coral should be in Qt for 10 weeks min. Coral additions is how it got into my display tank last, leasons hurt! Good luck