Good Ole' Cryptocaryon (ich) And Qt

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
So this drove me out of the hobby a couple of years ago.
In my time away i did a fair amount of research and planning before coming back in.

I have a QT system ready to go, that is going to house all my new fish for a minimum of 14 days (longer obviously if problems are identified).

I recently picked up a yellow tang and a small sailfin and plopped them in my tank. I figured, if they have ich, i will pull them out and QT seeing as they are the only inhabitants ATM.
I had thought, no way in hell my first two fish would have ich.

Well of course, both are happy, healthy and eating anndd the little sailfin has a few spots so QT is going up this week.

I am literally picking up right where I left off.

Now, i can pull these guys out QT with :

Copper, extremely hit and miss, and if successful, studies have been shown that the levels of copper required permanently damage a fish and shorten its potential life span significantly. not to mention new studies are showing copper resistance building in ich species.
OR
Hypo- Also hit and miss, the bacterial required for cycling cannot survive hypo and the ensuing problems make for a very hit and miss treatment. ( i lost the majority of my FOWLR to hypo/ich)


I hate both of these, i may as well throw both fish out and start over.


I'm trying to come up with a 3rd approach.

Live with ich.
here's my idea- please share your opinions on it.

Use my large water volume to my benefit and create as stable of a system as possible.
Keep stock relatively low. (see post below, stock plans)
My aquas-cape already provides plenty of hiding and 'safe' spaces for the fish to go to not feel stressed.

Use a UV sterilizer to kill some of the water born stages of ich (i know UV will not eradicate ICH, simply assist in keeping levels lower)

Basically trying to create as stress free of an environment as possible. In this way allowing the fish to fight off ich in the same way they would in the wild*

I will still quarantine new fish. For the purpose of not adding a deathly ill fish to my system, or another disease carrier (ie velvet).

Thoughts?






*fish in the wild have a much less level of ich to deal with, as well as a completely different level of stress to deal with as well compared to a normal reef aquarium.
 
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Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
** stock plans

1 yellow tang
1 sailfin
1 pair of clowns
1 pair of leapord wrasse
1 midas blenny
1 starry blenny
1 misc. wrasse (maybe flame, radiant)

1 misc. fish. Would like a stand out-odd kind of fish. but need to research the best fit.

In (120g DT, 50g sump, 150g stock tank 2nd sump)
minus rock and water levels in the sump, just north of 200gallons of water.
 

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
I tried fighting the 'get rid of ich' all together battle and lost miserably. Just trying to find a unconventional way around a common hobby problem.
 

shamous113

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Location
Stratford
"Tank Transfer Method (often referred to in the forums as ‘TTM’) is a method for prophylactic treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans, (referred herein as just ‘Ich’) that is common to marine fish when held in captivity and is different than the freshwater equivalent Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The method entails transferring a fish from one tank to another multiple times until the parasite eliminates itself because of the nature of the life cycle. When administered correctly, TTM is highly effective at eliminating Ich from the fish.

The following are the most important points for administering TTM properly:
+ Transfers need to occur every 72 hours OR less, never more
+ The total number of days for all transfer cycles is 12 or more.
+ A minimum of four transfers is required, with more required if doing transfers more frequently than every 72 hours
+ Time of day of transfers does not matter, provided no more than 72 hours elapse between transfers (ignore what you think you know or have heard about mornings being required)
+ Between transfers, the tank and equipment should be cleaned (with bleach or vinegar and water) and allowed to completely dry AND stay completely dry for 24 hours OR longer
+ The day you purchase your fish counts as a full Day in the 12-day counter, as long as you do not allow 72 hours to pass before your first transfer
+ You will need two or more of all your equipment, recommended:
* Tank or bucket/bin of an appropriate size
*Heater, plus thermometer (yes, even that you need two of)
* Hiding places (simply PVC elbows work great and they do not roll)
* Air tube & Air stone – should be thrown out after each use/transfer
* Tank cover (to prevent jumping)
*A square colander is recommended
+ Powerheads and HOB filters can be used, but may complicate the disinfection process due to the risk of incomplete drying. If powerheads/HOB filters are to be used, a thorough (24-hour) soak in bleach solution is recommended. Many people use an ammonia nullifier such as Prime (added on day 2 of each cycle) and do not bother with any type of filtration.
+ It is recommended you transfer your fish using a colander, however by hand or by net is OK with some considerations
+ As little water as possible should be transferred with the fish
+ Using Display Tank water instead of newly mixed water is OK if your Display Tank is guaranteed to be disease free
+ For best practice, you should keep your fish quarantined in an observation tank for at least 4 weeks after TTM completes, the longer the better; this will allow any other parasite masked by a low level of copper in the fish source to exhibit symptoms.
+ You can dose PraziPro for Flukes along with TTM or after
+ It is not advised to couple TTM with other treatment methods involving chemicals except Prazipro
+ Do not put your TTM tanks within 10 feet of your Display Tank due to the risk of disease transmission via aerosol contamination. Preferably, keep your QT/TTM tanks in a separate room or location.
+ TTM only works on fish, since the parasite’s life cycle requires a fish host,
+ TTM does NOT work on anything else, such as hermits, snails, live rock, macro algae, ANYTHING WET!)
+ TTM only works with cryptocaryon irritans (ich) and not with any other parasite

Overview of Tank Transfer Method (Authored by Spar, snorvich, dmorty, humblefish, newsmyrna80, Deinonych)"
 

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
Dont fight it, best bet would be to pull out and treat. Leave the tank fallow for a couple months.

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thats the point, treatment has never worked for me. and not despite my best efforts, sure i could pull fish out and treat (inevitably losing them) and leave the tank fallow. But the challenge of not reintroducing ich is a nightmare. Then to pull the whole thing apart when it eventually resurfaces again.

@shamous113

that is interesting and new to me for sure, but goes completely against stressing the fish out. I could see that working for new arrivals though.

Ive read well written articles detailing how ich is always present in everyone's tank.
Every store is guaranteed to have it. Most stores have their coral systems tied into their fish systems, so even that frag you bought will have it.

I know alot of the new age reefers disagree with that statement, but you cant argue it doesnt make sense, or have some plausibility.
 

AdInfinitum

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Thorndale, Ontario
You can also try chloroquine phosphate i think its called

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YES...this is the real deal and has made a significant impact on commercial fish farming. The medicated reef safe foods are OK if the target fish will eat them... but the in water treatment for use in QT is the best. Actually attacks 2 stages of the lifecycle and renders the fish as temporarily incompatible hosts so they can carry some resistance with them.
 

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
Some interesting info on CP, there are some laced foods that appear to have worked for some people.

If i used it in a QT, would it have the same affect as copper? (bind to the silicone etc etc)

Do you think if i used CP in my main system it would stick around as well?

Im at an advantage having no corals and what not just yet.
 

AdInfinitum

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Thorndale, Ontario
It has a very bitter taste which compromises the treated foods except for good eaters (quinine is what gives tonic water it's distinctive tang).

It will not persist in the tank like copper or bind to rock and sand.
 

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
It has a very bitter taste which compromises the treated foods except for good eaters (quinine is what gives tonic water it's distinctive tang).

It will not persist in the tank like copper or bind to rock and sand.
then i could find some CP, add all my fish that i want over, and then dose CP.
Run carbon and light (it dissolves in light apparently) wait a month or two and then try a frag or two.

Ive read 4-5 different articles all stating that CP is an effective one and done treatment for ICH and a varitey of diseases.
And no one disputing it, even on the 'great' reef central.
Hmmmm now to try find CP

64 page thread lol
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214&page=1
 

Poseidon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Location
SW Ontario
Was 40$ for 25g shipped on eBay. I spent 2.5 hours at work today ( hehe) reading that 62 page thread.
I'm convinced it will work.

That being said. Should I pull my fish out and do the Qt with new fish and let the tank fallow for 1.5 months or just add new fish to the display, and then nuke the whole system.




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heath

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Location
Woodstock, Ontario
no one is asking but I think it plays a huge part of why the fish are breaking out with ICH which is stress... how are these fish being handled...either by the seller or the buyer...I have had some of my tangs break out with a few spots after introducing them to the tank but and I'm sure that I have been lucky so far..but the spots disappear within a couple of days...and most of you know that my tanks are OVERSTOCKED...
 

sunnykita

Super Active Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Location
Woodstock, Ontario
I've had good luck with cupramine in a quarantine tank Brandon, but the last time I had a few ich spots I treated with garlic soaked food and within a couple of weeks all spots were gone. That was when I brought the fish home from boarding, stress of the move I think. None since, good luck with whatever treatment you choose !
 
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