Vodka Dosing 101

benzzz

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So after much research and peoples success and debate. I am going to start dosing my tank with Vinegar. Some people have, still do with great success in reducing Nitrates. Well my nitrates are out of control and with a couple large wc they still sit at above 40. My fault 100% the tank was set up in January 2011 and everything from my 65g and such was moved over to the new tank. Until recently finishing the basement the tank took a back seat. Now to get it back up where I had the other tanks.

Plan of attack is to get nitrates down as low as possible.

PO4 is 0.03
Nitrates 43
Alk 8.1
CA 480
MG 1280    like to see closer to 1400
temp 76 f
salinity 1.026
I dont test PH

So after another wc tomorrow morning and a retest for NO3 I will record and start the 16 week dose period.
GFO will be offline.


This is the chart I am going to follow.

 

unibob

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What do you do after week 16? If you stopped dosing it after this chart could you keep them low without dosing any more and good maintenance ?
 

Duke

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U either keep going higher or u stop at the amount that keeps you levels in check.. I dosed vodka once.  Pita.. Takes dedication or a doser.. Bio pellets are such a better choice these days imo
 

Salty Cracker

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Bio pellets 10000x over vodka, sugar or whatever dosing. 

A bag of pellets lasts in my system for well over a year, and I never have to think about it.  I mean, how do you beat that?
 

Duke

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Salty Cracker link said:
Bio pellets 10000x over vodka, sugar or whatever dosing. 

A bag of pellets lasts in my system for well over a year, and I never have to think about it.  I mean, how do you beat that?

i agree, i just topped mine up after about a year.. they are really worn down and small.. but still working as good as the day i fired them up.
 

benzzz

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What people have mentioned the main problem with reactors and media. They work best with fresh media and over time (1-3 months) lose efficiency as the media is exhausted. With vodka, vinegar, or Nopox, you simply dose less per day.
 

jroovers

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I agree with Duke and Salty.  It is easy to adjust the amount of pellets up and down to match your need.  It is set it and forget it relative to vodka dosing.  I have seen no drop off in performance as the pellets become older, I find the opposite is true, they seem to break in after a while and tumble better. When they get real small, you simply add more pellets.  While you can have some issues with clumping, this is relatively minor compared to the disaster that could ensue if your overdose your tank with vodka by accident.  To me it is a lot more risk for little to no reward (over bio pellets). 
 

Jewel

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I was seriously looking into doing this myself, got a lot of good info from fellow Reefer Swissguard, . But I don't have high Levels. It takes a lot of discipline to dose Vinegar or Vodka or what ever, even 2 Part, You've got a doser so it might work, I also have a Bio-Pellet Reactor and Pellets that i'm not using but as I say low levels SO FAR Good Luck with it.
 

Salty Cracker

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benzzz link said:
What people have mentioned the main problem with reactors and media. They work best with fresh media and over time (1-3 months) lose efficiency as the media is exhausted. With vodka, vinegar, or Nopox, you simply dose less per day.

Most media does either fill up, or wear out or whatever.  I replace carbon and GFO every month.  But I think pellets are just used up as the bacteria needs them.  But hey, what do I know.
 

benzzz

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I will look them up now thanks !

I wouldn't mind trying the pellets in a reactor but have read horror stories about cyano and systems crashing. I guess I read too much lol.
 

benzzz

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Vaughan, Ontario
Yes I would just run the /vodkavinegar through my Libra doser. I guess the pellets are like dosing vodka you have to find the sweet spot right? Someone said to start off with half the dose of recommended pellets and work your way up. What is the difference of doing the same to my doser and add a little more vinegar at a fraction of the price of a reactor or bag of pellets? Is there any difference?  I appreciate all the input here guys. Good info and research and of course experience and opinions.
 

TORX

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I am interested to see the results for people who choose this method. I vodka dosed my bar tank with great success, but I never documented the journey.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk
 

Salty Cracker

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BIGSHOW link said:
Have you thought about the nitra-cubes.  Easier then the pellets and works on the same principles.  Cheaper as well

I thought the cubes were cheaper but were used up 10x as fast??  I thought I read somewhere that the company was unhappy that biopellets lasted so long and wanted something that was used up quicker.... but I can't find the link... 
 

benzzz

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I will be following the dose per 100g . I figured it was worth a shot to try this. If all else fails iguess iwill buy a bag of pellets and reactor. Lol.

Jewel I think lack of water changes and poor husbandry is the factor. I may be wrong... like many things we trial and error.
 

BIGSHOW

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More information on the cubes below.  They may not last a year, but from the experience I have seen, they last 6-8months.  They require no reactor (but, they can be used with one) and there is no fear of them clumping.  They are truly set it and forget it.  Here is some more info:

"Bacteria consume the high carbohydrate source found in the BIO-Cubes and form a biomass that absorbs nitrates and phosphates from the water in the aquarium. This biomass is then skimmed out with a protein skimmer or is consumed as a food source by corals and clams.

When culturing bacteria, 2 of the most important factors that will determine the size of the colony are surface area and food source. BIO-Cubes look like small open celled sponges giving the product a massive surface area. BIO-Cubes also has 400% more biologically available, insoluble polymer carbohydrates than any other product in the world. These 2 factors create conditions that are perfect for culturing and sustaining large bacteria colonies required to effectively remove phosphate and nitrate from aquariums. It is these 2 factors that have made Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes the world’s best carbohydrate based nitrate removing media. Independent tests that were performed in real world scenarios revealed that BIO-Cubes had the ability to reduce nitrate levels from 60ppm to below 5ppm in 2 weeks while competing products claim to only start working after 2 weeks!

The Effects of Redfield’s Ratio on Carbohydrate based nitrate removers

Redfield ratio is the atomic ratio that exists between carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus that is found in plankton and throughout the oceans. This ratio also applies to yeast / bacteria that are responsible for nitrogen removal. The original ratio is found to be C:N:p = 106:16:1. The ratios of carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus have recently been proven to fluctuate somewhat between different species of yeast. All 3 of these nutrients are required in order to make the process of nitrate removal possible. If the system becomes depleted in either one of these nutrients, biomass production will not happen and nitrate removal will cease.

The role of Phosphate in Carbohydrate based nitrate removers

Phosphorus is essential to virtually every living creature. Phosphate is a component of ATP, RNA, DNA, and also the phospholipids that form all cell membranes. Low phosphate levels will limit growth in aquatic systems. The lack of Phosphate in a system will severely restrict the growth of the yeast / bacteria that removes nitrate in a system. Think of it in this way, if nitrate were the bricks for building a house, then phosphate would be the cement. If there were no cement to hold the bricks in place during construction, no building can continue. This is also true with the yeast / bacteria that is cultured to remove nitrate from the aquarium as the absence of phosphate will cause the process of nitrate removal to cease. As a general rule of thumb, the amount of phosphate you will need is approximately 2% of the total nitrate for the process to continue. If your system is too low in phosphate levels, we recommend using Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes Titanium. Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes Titanium is the world’s first carbohydrate based nitrate selective media that is completely resistant to Redfield’s Ratio and does not require phosphate in order to remove nitrates."

Directions for use:

The amount required will depend on stocking densities and amount of food added to the aquarium. Heavier stock loads will require larger amounts of product to be installed:

    Below 15ppm: 1ml Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes per liter of aquarium water
    15ppm to 30ppm: 2ml Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes per liter of aquarium water
    30ppm to 60ppm: 3ml Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes per liter of aquarium water
    Above 60ppm: 4ml Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes per liter of aquarium water

Before installing your BIO-Cubes, soak BIO-Cubes in freshwater for 24hrs to prevent skimmers from becoming over-active. If skimmer does become over-active, switch skimmer off for a few hours and re-start. The skimmer will return to normal operation within 24 hours. Do not use Phosphate removers in conjunction with this product. First use BIO-Cubes to remove all nitrates and then use a phosphate remover to remove phosphate.

Installing your BIO-Cubes:

Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes require very strong current and large quantities of oxygen in order to successfully remove nitrates. For best results, we recommend using Nitra-Guard BIO-Cubes in a “BOMB” Installation method.

If BIO-Cubes are to be used in a reactor it is advisable to have a venturi system installed to insure proper oxygenation of the BIO-Cubes. If BIO-Cubes are to be used in a filter bag or reactor, place them near the protein skimmer to assist in removing the nitrate and phosphate rich biomass faster. If you are using BIO-Cubes in a freshwater system, place a fine filter cloth over the canister of your filter. This will filter out the biomass which should be removed every few days. After 10 days, the bacteria colonies will become prolific enough to start lowering nitrate and phosphate levels in your aquarium. If nitrate and phosphate levels in your aquarium are high, some cloudiness may occur which clears in a few days. With time, BIO-Cubes start to biodegrade as they are consumed by bacteria. After 4 months, check BIO-Cubes and top-up levels to what they were when BIO-Cubes were installed.
 

AdInfinitum

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Jan 12, 2012
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Thorndale, Ontario
I have used all of the above methods to address the persistently high nitrates in my very old system With varying results.  Carbon dosing to reduce levels is a totally different game than maintenance dosing.

IMO...

Unless you have hit the point that your system has built up a "nitrate bank" just  use larger water changes to reduce your levels.  The risk free method. 

If you have a bank built up ie: test water before and after a change...water change reduces levels by proportionate amount but a couple days later test again and levels have returned to previous levels.

Vodka/Vinegar  easiest to control dosage, immediate response to changes, must be diligent and accurate, all reaction and culturing occurrs in the general system.


Bio-pellets  set up and leave,  changes in amounts can take a couple of weeks to show effects,  depending on reactor type  different effects (high flow high tumble reactors IMO function as gradual pellet grinders, broadcasting carbon into the general system which accounts for the cyano bacteria blooms associated with pellets and liquid carbon dosing.  However tall narrow slow tumble reactors seem to keep more of the activity within the reactor.  In Darryl's tall slow tumbling reactor the water above and around the pellets is notably cloudy so presumably in the slower reactors less pellet is physically ground and more is consumed before leaving the chamber.)  I have been living with massive cyano since two weeks after bringing pellets online months ago. The cyano is undeterred by drops in phosphate even at levels that have deleterious effects on corals.  Easiest and cost effective for maintenance dosing of established systems with already low levels.

Bio-Cubes  expensive for large systems with high levels, no tumbling or grinding so culturing is restricted to porous surface of cubes little to no ancillary effects on general system, very little solid information on overall effectiveness but theory follows a sound development of the bio-pellet material for aquarium specific use.  Did I mention expensive? My admittedly too small a dose was consumed in about 9 months mileage may vary in a maintenance role.  One unexpected upside, the overflow where I put the cube "bomb" is teeming with mysis that apparently feed on something in/on the cubes.
 
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