The Big 3.

[reeferkeeper420]

So i finally got all 3 additives at the swap. And ive been dosing to try to balance everything out, but its not working. Everythings fluctuating, but mainly the alk, the other 2 have just been rising since the dosing started. My Alk is currently 8.6 Ca 500 and mag is 1410. Now id like it to stay around these numbers, id like to let my Ca drop to 420-450 and mag around 1350-1400. What is usually the rule of thumb for dosing to keep it steady?? Right now im dosing 20 mls of alk, 100mls of ca and mag. Ca and mag are the BRS additives and the alk is Kent. Thanks
Riley

 

[Sewerat]

Riley. You need to find the happy point for the use age of your tank. If ca and mag keep rising. Cut back on how much or how often you do them and rise the alk until you get what works. It's a balance that each tank will require specific needs on an individual basis, the calculators are only a guide to get you close to where you need to be. You might find 25-30 mils of alk and only 75-80 mls of the other work. Who knows. Just dose, test, adjust, test. Oh and retest

 

[chief hill]

I'm doing the same thing right now. The only PITA will be is figuring out a daily dose. I guess dosing pump will help in the long run.

 

[EricTMah]

When trying to dial in numbers. I usually test on day one, then not dose for three full days. Then test again on day three and that's how much your tank uses.

Take day one numbers. Minus day three numbers. Take the answer and divide by three and that's your daily usage.

Dosing daily helps keep things balanced

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[Sewerat]

I'm thinking I want to try adding my daily dose age to my ATO water. Thoughts?

 

[EricTMah]

I use Kalk in my ATO and that's it. You shouldn't add all the big three together. They should all be dosed at least an hour apart. I usually dose Alk first thing in the morning way before lights are on and then dose my Mag later in the day when the lights have been on for a few hours.

Kalk helps with CA and ALK. But certain systems, like mine. Uses more Alk than the Kalk can provide. So additional Buffer might be needed to keep Alk stable and within range.

 

[Darryl_V]

Adding supplements to your top off water makes it hardier to calculate and keep steady. Top off water is not consistent everyday of the year....it can change vastly with the humidity levels and air circulation.

Personally unless your trying to raise pH because you have O2 problems I think using kalkwasser just over complicates things.

Also a note to anyone thinking about adding supplements to top off water you can only add one element to the water (adding more will cause precipitation and other problems) and when you do that you basically just made a watered down 1 part. (unless we are talking kalk which is balanced 2 part but still I dont like it due to evap fluctuation)

 

[reeferkeeper420]

Yeah im having a rough time trying to get everything dialed in. Testd last night and it was as follows. Alk- 9.7 Ca-580 mag- 1380. Evrything besides my mag is raising, which isnt what i wanted to do when i cut back on the dosage lol.

 

[Darryl_V]

Why are you doing more of the calcium 2 part vs. alkalinity? Also daily or even weekly dosing of magnesium doesnt hurt but its not needed.

If you are looking to get a maintenance dose going and your calcium is raising than you are dosing an amount that will raise your calcium and not maintain it.

The best thing to do is just manually get your ca, alk and mg set to the parameters you want. You can safely bump alk by .5dkh per day and calcium by 50ppm and mg by 100ppm. If any of the parameters are higher than you want than do not dose that element and wait for it to naturally drop to what you want.

From there you can do what EricT suggested to calculate your maintenance dose and go from there. Use the reef chemistry calculators online. This should get you in the ball park.

They dont need to be dose an hour apart. its not a bad idea but you can even do it at the same time as long as they are in different areas of the tank and there is enough circulation to get it all mixed. You just really dont want the concentrate to mix and cause precipitation.

 

[reeferkeeper420]

Im dosing more of the cal because it calls for more, the alk additive i have is more concentrated.

 

[reeferkeeper420]

So what if one of the params is naturally staying stable, do u still need to dose? Like with the mag you said weekly doses are fine, i was told that without one, the other precipitates out? Or does that only apply to Alk and Ca? Sorry im trying to understand the science behind the dosing so i can Get it right lol.

 

[curiousphil]

Our tanks naturally have a much higher buffer of ca than alk. This is part of what is meant when you read that those two elements should be in the proper "balance" and also why ca always seems to swing much less than alk. Alk swings more because there is less of it and so it depletes faster.

It's a shame that you are using alk and ca additives of different brands since that will make it more difficult to find a balanced dosing amount. Most brands will make their ca and alk additives in the proper ratio so that you can dose identical amounts to maintain the balance as the elements are used up.
I use the Tropic Marin balling salts and part a (ca) only calls for like 5 scoops of powder per 2.5l whereas part b (the alk) calls for 12.5 scoops. This results in solutions with different concentration levels but due to the afformentioned balance dosing identical amounts of each solution results in replacing ca and alk in the exact ratio that they exist in natural seawater, which is the same ratio in which those elements are taken up by stony corals.

Once you get the ca and alk to the appropriate balanced levels you should be able to dose matching 2 part products in the same qty.

This link may be helpful for you in identifying how much ca and alk you need to dose:
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Not sure if that Kent product is the same one you are using though, I think Kent males a couple different varieties..

 

[CanadaCorals.com]

Alkalinity is what we use to measure bicarbonate as test kits for bicarbonate would be difficult and expensive to obtain. Alkalinity in (very) short is salt water’s ability to buffer the pH against acids which try to lower the pH. Generally, natural seawater contains an alkalinity level of 7 dKH. Corals use calcium and alkalinity in equal parts to create their skeletons, which works out to be 2.8 dKH for every 20 ppm of calcium.

Low alkalinity can be one of the factors of nuisance algae growth. Both low and high alkalinity levels can cause precipitation of calcium. Low alkalinity causes precipitation in the water, while high alkalinity causes precipitation on heat sources like heaters and powerhead impellers.

When you dose alkalinity you will notice that it affects your calcium level by slightly decreasing it. When alkalinity is allowed to fall you will notice that your calcium will rise slightly in comparison causing an imbalance. Alkalinity will be the most challenging to keep consistent. Check it often, and dose as required; this will also help to keep your pH steady. To match the calcium level of 410-420 ppm I like to keep in my tank, I like to keep my alkalinity at about 7-8 dKH.

Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity: (as per Randy Holmes-Farley)

360 ppm to 0 dKH
370 ppm to 1.4 dKH
380 ppm to 2.8 dKH
390 ppm to 4.2 dKH
400 ppm to 5.6 dKH
410 ppm to 7 dKH (natural seawater)
420 ppm to 8.4 dKH
430 ppm to 9.8 dKH
440 ppm to 11.2 dKH
450 ppm to 12.6 dKH
460 ppm to 14 dKH

The relationship between calcium and alkalinity is an important one, and the numbers need to be balanced for optimal absorption by the corals and other life much like the human body needs a balance between calcium and phosphorus to make good bones. Some people may experiment with elevating the alkalinity level beyond the balanced ratio to try to increase coral growth, but there is no proof of this theory. Keep an eye on your calcium level though if you experiment like this as it may decrease your calcium, and may make it difficult to keep your calcium at an acceptable level. Also keep an eye on the precipitation on heat sources as this becomes a waste of your calcium and alkalinity dosing efforts. My aquarium’s alkalinity shot up to 18 dKH at one time, and at this point some corals did show irritation, but nothing was lost.

 

[reeferkeeper420]

So i stopped dosing for 4 days to see the results heres what i got.
Day 1
Alk- 9.2
Ca-540
Mag-. 1410

Day 2
Alk-9.2
Ca-540
Mag-1380

Day 3
Alk-8.7
Ca-520
Mag-1380

Day 4
Alk-8.5
Ca-480
Mag-1380

 

[reeferkeeper420]

Will it naturally balance itself out at 8.0 and 420?? Do i have to worry about mag dropping? If so can i dose just mag without the other 2?

 

[unibob]

420ppm calcium will be in balance with around 8.4dkh according to chart.

Mag can be dosed in quite a large dose and doesn't have to be with the other 2.

(I believe I remeber Darryl v telling me when I first started hobby, he checked his mag level monthly and dosed it all at once during maintaince at end of month)


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[reeferkeeper420]

Ok cuz my alk is currently 8.5 and cal is 480.

 

[unibob]

Between day 3 and 4 your alk dropped .2 for 40ppm calcium, so another day you should be at 8.3dkh alkalinity and 420ppm calcium... Which is pretty balanced, you will then need to figure out your daily dose to maintain these levels.


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[reeferkeeper420]

Is it possible for alk to raise without doing anything to the water ie. Water changes, dosing. I tested the other day and it was 8.5 and now its 9.2?¿?

 

[reeferkeeper420]

I