sand or no sand???

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crazybizzle

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is it ok to do a fowlr or small reef  tank without a sand bed, is it safe, is their any drawbacks to running no sand?? i know sand houses your bio load but does it work...drawbacks info??? also is it possible to keep corals that dont need to live in the sand??? info please to lazy right now to search myself thats why im asking u guys. thx
 
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fishit

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it will be fine with no sand actualy sand can be bad some times after an extended period it will atualy give off bad chemicals in the tank and for corals you dont need sand allthow it does help reflect light
 

pulpfiction1

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good question,to be honest i have often considered a bare bottom tank with live rock only,i would like to hear if this would be a workable choice,i know some livestock prefer to have sand but would they be able to live without it
 

iantower

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Location
Sarnia, Ontario
I wish I went this way all the time and had a ricordia garden on the bottom, I seen one and it was awesome!
There would be no side effects to not having sand and would probably keep things looking a lot cleaner I think.
cheers!
 

pulpfiction1

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im in the process of setting up a 6ft long tank and will close loop it.i will leave sand out if my fish can deal without it,would keep it cleaner i would think,building a custom sump that will house a small DSB.didnt mean to hijack the thread crazybizzle,but this has been a question for myself for some time
 
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crazybizzle

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no prob pulp, im in the same boat bout to set up another tank also
 

teebone110

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London, Ontario
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www.thefragtank.ca
I have always had bare bottom in my tank, it makes clean up very easy. The bottom ends up getting encrusted with coraline algae which in my opinion, looks great! An old LFS in Windsor used to keep his reef tanks this way, and is where I got the idea. ;)
 

Blob-79

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I believe most people that run bare bottom tanks, run a decent sand bed in sump. Really as far as I know there are only 2 reasons to want a sand bed...1-biological filtration, with all the live rock alot of us keep, really no big deal. 2 and the main one, is calcium carbonate what most substrates are made with is very good at buffering alk. without any sort of sand bed you will want to watch your alkalinity. other then that, alot of people run bare bottoms and swear by it. myself I just dont really like the look of a bare bottom.
 

pulpfiction1

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im gonna seriuosly consider it,with the load i have the sand is never as clean looking as i like,was thinkin with the dsb in the sump i should do fairly well,with a decent pressure pump pushin 1000gph for the closed loop the floor should be almost spotless
 
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fishit

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the only problem is that if a rock falls witch they do every once in a while it could easily crack the bottom pain with no sand to cushion the fall
 
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reeffreak

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Well im my opinion if the tanks going to be run with no sandbed there has to be a remote sandbed to make up for the loss of benificial bacteria thats not there , Im not sure about the comments sandbed can sometimes be bad If your using the right sand (EI- not crushed coral ) and have proper flow your sand bed benifits you huge ... anotrhign thing is with no sand you will be vacumming the bottom over and over again as this is where everythign will settle .. having and kind of goby, starfish, any sand dwelling fish will not be able to be placed in the tank the sandbed is what feeeds them , so a engineer goby in a tank with no sand doesnt make sense , thats what these fish do is feed off of whats inn the sandbed .
 
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shayneh

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I have almost always run BB and there is enough beneficial bacteria contained on the live rock to adequately take care of things. Remote sandbeds are a huge pain as they need to be taken offline yearly before they start puking nutrients back into the water. People tend to forget that without all the sand in the bottom your volume of water in the tank increases which also helps dilute nutrients longer and it allows for a s-load of flow which allows the bacteria in the LR to do their job more effectively. For Example.....I will be running a 2600gph closed loop on my 75g with another 700-900gph return from the sump. If I had sand in there it would look like the desert on a windy day. My tank before this was a biocube and I had a mag 9.5 and a mp10 running full tilt and my clowns and sps loved it....You also don't get any detritus settling in the tank as the flow should keep it suspended and allow your overflow to adequately take care of it.

I will agree with Reeffreak in that your selection of sand dwelling inhabitants is a trade off but I have a pink spot goby that gets along fine without a sand bed and a brittle star that I've had for about 5 years now.
 

pulpfiction1

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im inclined to agree sheynah,i will be runnin high-flow closed loop and there will be high-flow return from sump as well.the dsb i will have is gonna be small compaired to the deep sand i am running in my disply,looks like crap after about 6 months but convinced myself the visible tradeoff for a better bacteria and comfort zone for my animals was all the rage,but since ive been vodka dosing and have over did the live rock i do believe i will be ok with a bare bottom tank,if i run into and troubles with high nitrates i will probably follow up with a sulfer denitrator as cal did,i agree that the high flow through all my live rock will keep my water pollution in check,the bonus i see is that when i do put a mechanical filter in place periodically(sock) the detris that is there will be removed quite handily
 

Blob-79

Super Active Member
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Jan 13, 2017
Location
Tillsonburg
it basically comes down to personal preferance. To prove one way is better then the other, i believe is pretty impossible. Both bare bottoms and sandbeds have their  bonuses and drawbacks. Personally I feel deep sandbeds in the display is dangerous. But I like to have a sand bed regardless for astetics. A shallow sandbed is easily cared for and adds buffering capacity.

The reason I asked why you have a 6" sand bed in your refugium was mainly trying to figure out what the basis for it was. Because its too shallow to have any de-nitrating properties, and much deeper then needed just for bio filter. As long as your not getting any detrius settling on the top of the sand, it should be safe enouph. Basically you dont want the bacteria living in the sandbed getting suffocated. vacuum the top during water changes to ensure this.

RDSB's I actually like. I run one on my system and since starting it, I have noticed a great improvment on all around stability. IMHO if it is set up properly, big "quotations" on the "Properly" they can be a huge benefit to a system, and maintain their effectivness for years apon years.

Most unexplained tank crashes are blammed on deep sand beds...i feel mostly because of ignorance.

In the end, I think this cyano "cycle" is being over analyzed. It is what it is, any tank that isnt being dosed carbon or bacterial cultures will encounter a cyano cycle. imo its best to let it do its thing and sort itself out.
 
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crazybizzle

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Thanks for insight and opions blob its appreciated im still learning started from scratch 8 months ago from never having a fish tank im my life right to a salt tank.  Tank is still looking great and running good just wanted to nip it in the ass ahead of time. And im starting a new tank now which im still up in the air on bb or nor. Thanks
 
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