Water Change Return Pump?

[Tim A]

Here is a question. I am possible looking at keeping my big bucket of mixed salt water in my basement directly under my tank. So instead of filling up 5 gallon jugs and lugging them upstairs and pouring water in the tank for water changes, I am looking for easier ways, because i can see that getting old real quick and i wont want to do the regular water changes. So I thought about having a pump connected to tubbing that will push water up through my floor ( i will drill a small hole in the floor ) and in to the tank. When shopping for a pump do I look at the head height for the distance I need the water to travel from point A to point B or will it be different since it is pushing though a tube maybe creating more pressure? I would need to climb about 10-15 feet i am estimating. Does anyone else do this? Or Am i just in a dream world and getting in way over my head for the trouble?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Josh]

tubing vs piping. Length of vertical run, size of pipe, # of 90. All of these will affect your flow rate.

Think of things this way, if you run tubing some of the pressure of the pump is going to push on the outter walls of the tubing causing it to expand and lose some of its "push/head" pressure. Theres a bunch of pumps that can take of things for you. However 1 thing id like to point out. How do you plan to turn on said pump? You will want to trim the flow rate as many of the pumps that are able to pump that height will also fill a bucket in less than 30s.

I am by no means an expert and honestly @shamous113 is a good guy for this type of info. I would think a mag 12-18 would be in the range you need for that kind of head pressure, likely with a 5/8 hose as well.

 

[Tim A]

Thanks for the info, I have a wireless remote that i use now to control my pump. I only have it in a Rubbermaid and it is directly beside my setup. I just push on and the pump turns on and click off and then it is off. I was thinking of the same thing so I am not running up and downstairs to turn it off.

 

[Josh]

Sounds like a good idea, should test it with a lightbulb to see if it works through the floor.

 

[kapelan]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-24V...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
to lift on 15 feet probably you will need 3 of them in a line.
To power them I'm using any notebook adapter

 

[shamous113]

A mag 18 will push 757gph of water at 15' of. the number of elbows and valves will increase your head loss. I'd suggest 1"dia pvc minimum so you don't loose any more flow due to friction loss in a smaller diameter pipe. Below are some hypothetical examples of head loss due to pipe size based on a pump rated for 3500gph @ 0'. you can get 1"dia spa flex and fittings from a pool/hot tub store to help keep the costs down. Ive also used a slip slip union to change the direction of the spa flex instead of elbows.

Fifteen feet of 1/2" pipe would add 31 feet to your head pressure. Total head pressure: 46 feet (+306%)
Fifteen feet of 1" pipe would add only 3 feet of extra head pressure. Total head pressure: 18 feet (+120%)
Fifteen feet and 1.5" would add virtually no head pressure at all. Total head pressure: 15 feet (+0%)

 

[TheGreenStag]

A mag 18 will push 757gph of water at 15' of. the number of elbows and valves will increase your head loss. I'd suggest 1"dia pvc minimum so you don't loose any more flow due to friction loss in a smaller diameter pipe. Below are some hypothetical examples of head loss due to pipe size based on a pump rated for 3500gph @ 0'. you can get 1"dia spa flex and fittings from a pool/hot tub store to help keep the costs down. Ive also used a slip slip union to change the direction of the spa flex instead of elbows.

Fifteen feet of 1/2" pipe would add 31 feet to your head pressure. Total head pressure: 46 feet (+306%)
Fifteen feet of 1" pipe would add only 3 feet of extra head pressure. Total head pressure: 18 feet (+120%)
Fifteen feet and 1.5" would add virtually no head pressure at all. Total head pressure: 15 feet (+0%)

Hi Shamous
I have been reading this thread closely. I have a basement sump. The linear ft from my Sump to Display is about 30ft and the Head height is about 12ft to my display's return. I am running a 1.5" pvc pipe with around 6 x 1.5" (90) and 4 x 1" (90) elbows. The 1.5" pvc has the longest run from my sump to display around 4' of head height and 30' across till my display cabinet. I am currently using Reeflow under Barracuda setting however this pump is way over kill for my set up and i am only using under 25% of its power. I have a Mag 18. You think it will work if i use it as a submersible pump which will bring down the head height to 10ft.

OP didnt mean to hijack your thread. Hope you are ok. Thanks.

 

[Tim A]

Np, good to learn and spark conversation. My wife kind of kybsoshed this idea as she didnt want me to drill through the floor to run PVC pipe. She said I can carry jugs of water upstairs.

 

[shamous113]

Hi Shamous
I have been reading this thread closely. I have a basement sump. The linear ft from my Sump to Display is about 30ft and the Head height is about 12ft to my display's return. I am running a 1.5" pvc pipe with around 6 x 1.5" (90) and 4 x 1" (90) elbows. The 1.5" pvc has the longest run from my sump to display around 4' of head height and 30' across till my display cabinet. I am currently using Reeflow under Barracuda setting however this pump is way over kill for my set up and i am only using under 25% of its power. I have a Mag 18. You think it will work if i use it as a submersible pump which will bring down the head height to 10ft.

ok so a 1.5" dia 90 deg elbow adds about .5' of head pressure and on 1"dia pipe it adds 1' of head pressure. (6x.5)+(4x1)=7' of added head pressure. +10' of actual head height =17' total head height, not including any loss due to the reduction to 1" dia (would need to know total length and if it splits to two 1" lines). The mag 18 is listed to shut off at 16.75' of head, it wont work.

One of the Jebao series of pumps will work better. for example a jebao DCP-18000, they have a max head height of 30' and if you look at the pump curve at full power, 130 watts and about 18' of head it will push about 10'000 L/h (2600 gph) and at 79 watts it would push about 7000 L/h (1800 gph).

My wife kind of kybsoshed this idea as she didnt want me to drill through the floor to run PVC pipe. She said I can carry jugs of water upstairs.

How about running it in a wall and use a central vacuum cover to hide the hose in the wall?

 

[TheGreenStag]

ok so a 1.5" dia 90 deg elbow adds about .5' of head pressure and on 1"dia pipe it adds 1' of head pressure. (6x.5)+(4x1)=7' of added head pressure. +10' of actual head height =17' total head height, not including any loss due to the reduction to 1" dia (would need to know total length and if it splits to two 1" lines). The mag 18 is listed to shut off at 16.75' of head, it wont work.

One of the Jebao series of pumps will work better. for example a jebao DCP-18000, they have a max head height of 30' and if you look at the pump curve at full power, 130 watts and about 18' of head it will push about 10'000 L/h (2600 gph) and at 79 watts it would push about 7000 L/h (1800 gph).



How about running it in a wall and use a central vacuum cover to hide the hose in the wall?

Thanks Shamous much appreciated. And guess what I ended up getting a Jebao Dcp 18000. These pumps r strong and I am only running them at 58% pump speed consuming 73% watts.

Tim I got lucky to run the pipes down due to my joists running parallel to the pipes and also I have a finished basement so the pipes r hidden in the ceiling. Drilling couple of holes in your floor is not a big deal as far as u have it hidden in your cabinet and seal the outer surrounding around the hole with silicone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[samiam]

Tim A, I have my water mixing station in the basement as well. what i do is run a Mag 18 connected to a 25ft Python hose. its perfect, and simple.

bring hose up and clamp to tank
turn on pump to fill RO resevoir (under tank)
move hose to tank from resevoir
turn off pump after a few seconds to start a syphon and drain water (run down and move pump to empty bin)
once drained enough water, move pump to fresh saltwater bin and start pump.

sounds more complicated typing it out then it is. its very simple. to save some running up and down i have a WIFI outlet connected to my google home. so all i say is..."Hey google, turn on basement pump"

 

[shamous113]

Thanks Shamous much appreciated. And guess what I ended up getting a Jebao Dcp 18000. These pumps r strong and I am only running them at 58% pump speed consuming 73% watts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome, I'm running a dct15000 on my setup and I keep a spare too, I had a power supply dye once but other then that its been running for over a year. my next pump will be a DCP series from them.

 

[TheGreenStag]

Welcome, I'm running a dct15000 on my setup and I keep a spare too, I had a power supply dye once but other then that its been running for over a year. my next pump will be a DCP series from them.

i ordered a DCT 12000 as a back up just in case if i ever run into problems with my 18000. As per Jason at Petsandponds the DCT 12000 will be good enough to be used as a back up only untill i get the replacement if i ever run into any situation. At 12'ft it is capable of pumping 1200GPH even if i cut that into half due to 90 elbows i am still getting 500-600GPH which is good enough to run it temporarily...I am loving my 18000 these pumps are way under-rated to be honest. Even 12000 has a 19.5' head height...