Still More Questions:gha This Time

[scottbennett86]

40g tank
20g refugium

2 juvenile black clowns
1 pink star polyp
Kenya tree
Some red macro algae
Chaeto and calerpa in the sump

Alright got myself some green hair algae. And possibly diatoms as well.

Steps I have taken
1. Turned down lights in duration and intensity.
2. Water change as my nitrate was up(5-10)
3. Decrease feeding volume.
4. Removed all pellet food for the time(higher in phosphate apparently?)
5. Adjusted skimmer to be wetter to attempt to make it more effective. (think it was too dry before and not removing enough)

Obviously knowing my phosphate level is important. My test kit is on the way.

Am I on the right track?
My wife would like some hermits. Preferably blue legged. I would also like some snails. Would now be a good time to add a just a few(as I would rather handle this by lower nutrients than more mouths to feed) and give some more advantage to the Refugium? Or should I wait untill nitrate stops showing up?

What about some type of phosphate removing media such as phosguard? Or is that overkill?

Any advice would be appreciated.





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[Salty Cracker]

bulk ferric oxide in a reactor. PO4 problem solved, very inexpensive.

Add blue legs anytime, snails too. Big mexican turbos like to knock stuff around but do a great job. The teeny ones that are hitchhikers probably do most of the grunt work.

What kind of PO4 test did you order?

 

[scottbennett86]

Salifert. Api doesn't go low enough according to my research.

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[Salty Cracker]

Salifert is good, it won't do super-low-range (parts per billion), so if you want to get into sps the next test should be a hanna, but this should help you out. Nobody really uses API lol

 

[Shooter000]

I do but have never used them, lmfao, never test!!!....call me the devil!!!!!!

 

[TORX]

Salifert. Api doesn't go low enough according to my research.

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API is like testing for a temperature with your wrist. You know kinda what is going on, but that is really it. I use API for tank cycles, but that is it. RedSea Kits all the way.

 

[heath]

I have 3 different test kit, salifert, hagen and api.. for shits and giggles one day I used all 3 and the reading were the same...how low do you want to go, I think that zero is the lowest you can go...

 

[scottbennett86]

Went salifert as api minimum on the scale was .25 and target(by my reading) was .03. Never had an issue with api otherwise.

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[Joshbrookkate]

I agree with Torx, though. API is good for cycling. Then we need the better test kits.
I use Salifert for nitrates, Hanna for phosphates and Red Sea for Ca, Kh and Mg.

 

[TORX]

I have 3 different test kit, salifert, hagen and api.. for shits and giggles one day I used all 3 and the reading were the same...how low do you want to go, I think that zero is the lowest you can go...

0 isn't really 0.00 on those kits. It could be 0.99 even 2.00. When several of us have phosphate goals of 0.04 or lower, API just isn't accurate enough.

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[nathan]

If your looking for a more natural approach and getting snails anyway the spiny star astrea snail works wonders on that algae. I'm like shooter... like to keep it simple.

 

[Salty Cracker]

I won't beat this dead horse here much more, but if you don't constantly remove phosphate, it can and will build up in the rock and substrate. So using clean up crew to cut down the HA doesn't remove phosphate, it just redistributes it. Over time you will end up with a crash, where the tank suddenly explodes in HA. It usually takes (in my experience) about 5 years depending on your feeding regimen, but once you've had one (or two) you start to look for ways to permanently eliminate it (GFO).

They used to call it "old tank syndrome" and tell you to "start over". That simply isn't the case anymore. Also, the products that rip phosphate out too quick (usually aluminum oxide based), can shock the system by removing it too quickly.

Anyway, as I said I won't keep going on, but I did bring a VERY dead slime tank back from the dead using GFO,

 

[scottbennett86]

Hmmm... I wonder if that is why a couple of the rocks I have. (I had multiple sources) were more covered than the rest. They aren't getting more light than the rest but had the most algae. Maybe the person who had them before me had high phosphates. If it grows back on these rocks should I just remove and dispose of them? I added phosguard at the recommended dose and plucked everything I could get at the other day.

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[Salty Cracker]

Phosguard is aluminum based, it has the nasty side-effect of leeching back into the tank after it's full. GFO fills and then becomes more or less inert. Ask unibob about getting some bulk GFO (or other places have it too) and just run it long term, the rocks very likely had large stores of phophate (from someone who didn't use gfo ), but no need to throw it out, just continue the gfo and over time it will pull it all out. I was told "your rock is toast, throw it all out and buy new", and that likely would have been a quicker route, but it all came around. Now I have the opposite problem...TOO MUCH stuff growing well on the rocks. palys, monti, etc just growing like crazy. I have meteor shower on 50% of my rocks. Good problem to have, I'd rather have that than hair algae, bubble or slime!

 

[AdInfinitum]

No matter how saturated your rocks are it just takes a bit of time. Phosphate is really very easy to remove from systems but as Salty said it must be removed not just redistributed.

Working with your system to restore balance and make it right once will teach you more about reefing than throwing it out and rebooting a hundred times will and in the end you will have a stronger better system. GFO has the best balance of effectiveness and safety out there still IMO.

 

[Kman]

One thing people forget to do sometimes is forget to factor in manually removing it. I take a course plastic brush and scrub the rocks daily sometimes 2 times a day. If you act like a herbivore and constantly damage the GHA it will have to constantly repair itself and that takes away from the growth phase from the daily energy budget. As it needs to repair itself before it can go back into reproduction mode. The best way to deal with GHA is you hit it multi pronged approach of manual removal, nutrient export, chemical like GFO and you will crush it. It just takes time. If you use things like Chato or Caulerpa that out-compete the GHA for available nutrients you will limit how fast it can grow and is a good long term solution. Plus as a bonus Caulerpa usually releases a growth inhibitor for out competing other algae that you can leverage. It is when you attack GHA or other problem algae on all fronts that you will win.

I myself don't like to use stuff like Phosguard as it rapidly reduces phosphates and messes with O2 levels. I find it is to quick a solution and can be a shock to corals and your reef tank inhabitants. It is good however in emergency situations where you really need to drop the numbers to acceptable levels and it should not be used regularly in my opinion. If you want to run something use GFO or if you have a place to put it phosphate pads.

 

[Shooter000]

I use sea-pora phosphate pads in my HOB skimmer to control phosphates, works wonders and cheap, could even put it in between your baffles in the sump, just remember let it sit passive not forced flow...

 

[Kman]

Forced flow is alright but not the best way to use it. For sure not the more efficient way of using it that is for sure. I use mine in one of the chambers of my old school overflow. The water trickles over it on the way to the sump.

 

[Salty Cracker]

A phos-pad working would be totally dependent on bio-load. If you have a lot of fish phos pads will not keep up. Okay for lps but sps will start to go brown and even recede when phosphate levels go up. When phosphate is in the parts-per-billion lps won't grow unless hand fed. I know my phosphate levels are going up when the xenia starts to grow. Shooter I'll make a convert out of you yet, expecially once you start struggling with sps. Your tank is young and frisky now, but bad things creep in....

 

[scottbennett86]

With my low bioload perhaps a phospad is the way for me to go short term. Also I got an unexpected upgrade yesterday. I had planned to go next to a 120 for my "final" tank. Found a 90 gallon dirt cheap so I spent my day off today putting everyone in thier new home. They are still going to go into the 120 but that is still 6 or more months down the road. It is going to get a drilled overflow and I am going to build another new stand for it, the one that is under it a built for freshwater, didn't leave room for a sump.

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